Astrologian misconceptions

[Ryan2714]

i am still doing ok with my 208ilv ast, but still some little thing i hate about ast
1st : i hate when i have another ast in my team, cant do the double regen effect like whm medica II, the card buff remove each other ( some time i cast arrow+ on a char and then the other ast cast another one on that char too or use an aoe card ),will be chaos unless you have a team voice chat or a smart partner know what you and he/she are doing.
2nd: whm and sch have a perfect skill set that almost every spells is useful even in pvp or nonpvp, while ast have stella that very rarely use in nonpvp; lightspeed is an amazing life-saver skill but its cd is too long and without it, ast have zero instant aoe healing spell; CO is a beautiful looking spell but the effect is so meh, only good in pvp or to help get a little bit more mp regen from LE, rarely you can use the full potencial of this spell; ast have zero instant casttime damage spell (whm have aero I and water for single target, assize for aoe; sch have enegry drain and ruin II for single, miasma II for AOE )
3rd: the "Shuffle", i cant remember how many time i be like draw a ewer->shuffle->another ewer, draw a spear->shuffle->another spear ... so anoying.

[TatoRazzino]

i am still doing ok with my 208ilv ast, but still some little thing i hate about ast
1st : i hate when i have another ast in my team, cant do the double regen effect like whm medica II, the card buff remove each other ( some time i cast arrow+ on a char and then the other ast cast another one on that char too or use an aoe card ),will be chaos unless you have a team voice chat or a smart partner know what you and he/she are doing.
2nd: whm and sch have a perfect skill set that almost every spells is useful even in pvp or nonpvp, while ast have stella that very rarely use in nonpvp; lightspeed is an amazing life-saver skill but its cd is too long and without it, ast have zero instant aoe healing spell; CO is a beautiful looking spell but the effect is so meh, only good in pvp or to help get a little bit more mp regen from LE, rarely you can use the full potencial of this spell; ast have zero instant casttime damage spell (whm have aero I and water for single target, assize for aoe; sch have enegry drain and ruin II for single, miasma II for AOE )
3rd: the "Shuffle", i cant remember how many time i be like draw a ewer->shuffle->another ewer, draw a spear->shuffle->another spear ... so anoying.

I'm actually glad that you posted this in this misconception thread, because some of your problems with the job are fixed by looking at things in a different way.

1) First of all, there is usually no benefit from having two players using the same job in any party combination. The reason why Medica II stacks with anything is because, whenever WHMs are paired with another WHM, they have to stack those things because they have no mitigation other than an Eye for an Eye with a very long cooldown or a Virus that only blocks physical damage. If their HoTs couldn't stack, they wouldn't be able to do much. Also, two SCHs can't stack their shields either, which means that this problem is not related to AST. Finally, with two ASTs in the party you should choose the opposing Sect; if the other person is in Diurnal, you go in Nocturnal and vice-versa. This way you can stack shields and regens comfortably.

As for the cards, well player stupidity is hardly something that the devs should take in consideration while designing anything; if the other AST is removing your cards, it means they have 0 awareness, and that's something SE can't fix;

2) WHM and SCH have no instant cast AoE healing spell. Spells are not skills, since they don't cost MP and have cooldowns that are not built in the GCD. Assize has a 90s cooldown, so it's not as if WHM can use it often, and Indomitability costs a stack that SCHs may want to use in a different situation. Lightspeed is a pretty good cooldown, but you can also get instant cast AoE spells by using Swiftcast, a skill you get from Thaumaturge.

CO is beautiful and very powerful, and you can get the full potential of this skill very often if you know how to set up your cards, AoE regen in Diurnal and LA; this is not a problem related to the job skill, it's related to player skill, so SE can't fix that either.

About Fluid Aura: again, it's a skill not a spell, and it has a 30s cooldown. You can't spam it and it also requires you to be close to the target, which in several occasions can not be an option. It does not bypass any accuracy checks, which means it can miss.

Aero is weaker than Combust, and the initial damage it does is not only ridiculously low but it's also a liability: it means that this specific DoT can't bypass accuracy checks. As AST, you have Combust, which is also instant cast, it's stronger than Aero and bypasses accuracy checks - meaning it can't miss. And also: you can cross-class Aero, if that 50 potency initial hit is so important to you.

Assize is something unique to WHM: it's a skill, not a spell, that deals damage and heals at the same time, while recovering 10% of the caster's MP. You can use it in a variety of situations, and doing AoE damage is only one of them. It also has a long cooldown and it doesn't bypasses the accuracy check, so it's not a reliable tool for damage in high end content.

Energy Drain is a skill that consumes Aetherflow stacks, which the SCH may want to save for later, so it's not a skill that can be spammed with no consequences. Also, it doesn't bypass accuracy checks so it can be a complete waste of a stack.

Ruin II is incredibly weak and not worth the GCD most of the time. It also doesn't bypass accuracy checks.

Miasma II is also week and it's a GCD waste unless you have three or more enemies to hit. It's also a DoT, so it can't be spammed, and it doesn't bypass accuracy checks.

Finally, having instant cast damage spells with low potency is hardly a big asset. All spells trigger your GCD, so I have no idea why you believe that it's such a good option to point Aero as an asset for WHM if you can use that GCD to use Stone III, which is a bit stronger. The skills you mentioned are good, but they're either tied to other things or can be situational, so they're hardly something that flips the DPS numbers that much or something that adds that much utility in terms of DPS.

3) About Shuffle, yeah it's annoying, and I heard SE intends to fix it. Just be patient.

[Roxas_Andrade]

I'm actually glad that you posted this in this misconception thread, because some of your problems with the job are fixed by looking at things in a different way.

Well, saying the skill is an ability and not a spell doesn't change the fact that AST doesn't have acces to anything like it. We still could have some of them...
If SCH is supposed to use stacks for something else than indomitabiity and energy drain, there's not a lot of options left... SCH should use their resources according to the situation.

What I mean is: AST has a great toolset, so much that I miss buffing someone when I'm a WHM... But it still feels that we lack something...
To tell the truth, it's kinda boring using just two Dots and spam malefic II. We could use more attack skills sometimes. If stella was instant or off GCD, we could make a lot more out of it. People say it could unbalance PVP, but heavy is halved everytime you cast it, so I don't think it would be a problem.
I agree with the things people say about shuffle, and I would love to see it not drawing the same card again, after all, the reason I use it is to not have that card at that moment...
As for CO, it relly lets me down sometimes... We have a long CD for something that would only help with one tick of LA, Asp.Helios or CU - two if you're lucky to time it right with the server ticking. The stun thing is also something that you can only use once during a pull and usually you don't get it to full potential because you don't have all that hots and spread cards on everyone by the time you use it for the stun. I would suggest that CO was still insta-cast, but on GCD. Sounds like too powerful, but think of it: stun wouldn't last forever - Holy's doesn't so CO's shouldn't either. Extending buffs indefinitely wouldn't also be a thing, since the skill would now spend mp that you could be using for something else and refreshing 5sec of a buff on a 3sec CD wouldn't be that great anyway...

And we can always hope for some better, different skills in the next expansion...

[TatoRazzino]

Well, saying the skill is an ability and not a spell doesn't change the fact that AST doesn't have acces to anything like it. We still could have some of them...

It changes a lot. WHM having the power to blast an off-GCD every 90s is not something that will flip the table in healing as much as people claim it would. In 4-person content, it's not needed and in 8-man it's also not needed when your healing partner also have access to it. Using both Indomitability and Assize is not necessary in any encounter designed so far, so AST not having anything like that is not hurting anything and it's hardly something that brings the job down. WHM having no mitigation is not regarded as a problem, so why would AST not having a not needed instant cast AoE healing skill be a problem? Stop trying to transform AST in a WHM with cards. If they had all the tools a WHM has, WHM would become useless; is that what you guys want?

And for the love of god, if you feel boring only adding two DoTs and spamming Malefic, don't play WHM as well. Fluid Aura is barely a thing with its 30s recast timer and range, and Aero is a potency loss most of the time; and you have that as AST as well, so you can argue that they both DPS in the same way. Now tell me: why is doing it as WHM a nice way to DPS and doing it as AST a problem? Double standards.
It's so annoying having to respond to ridiculous claims over and over, so please stop.

[MidnightTundra]

And for the love of god, if you feel boring only adding two DoTs and spamming Malefic, don't play WHM as well. Fluid Aura is barely a thing with its 30s recast timer and range, and Aero is a potency loss most of the time; and you have that as AST as well, so you can argue that they both DPS in the same way. Now tell me: why is doing it as WHM a nice way to DPS and doing it as AST a problem?

You do Aero to avoid clipping the GCD (clipping tampers with DPS) with Fluid Aura and Assize. You can do both in one GCD depending on latency. Aero definitely still has its uses. Aero II is a low duration/high potency attack. You're not spamming stone III as much as you're spamming Malefic II because Aero III and Aero II have to be reapplied more frequently in comparison to Combust I/II. WHM also has 3 AoE skills to play with while AST has one. His boredom with AST's rotation is perfectly valid.

[Ersahi]

I have not had any problems with people talking bad about astro, but I am probably done with the job. The balance or bust nature of the cards just is not fun to play when you are drawing trash, and I had a black mage ask me to stop using the arrow because it threw off his fire 2 > transpose timing.

I liked a lot of the small variations about the job, but the zero or hero D6 roll for cards is not entertaining anymore.

[CallamarGaramonde]

Its so true though.... I was denied several static opportunities because i had the gall to say that I'd rather play Astrologeon (although i have whm equally geared). However I have solo healed Thordan ex with astrologeon soooo they cant be all that bad? right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLc1o8XpOX4 (take note that the other healer will wipe at first cleave if you do watch it )

[Rai_Takara]

Its so true though.... I was denied several static opportunities because i had the gall to say that I'd rather play Astrologeon (although i have whm equally geared). However I have solo healed Thordan ex with astrologeon soooo they cant be all that bad? right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLc1o8XpOX4 (take note that the other healer will wipe at first cleave if you do watch it )

That was a nice video. I can't believe I never thought about using Collective like that during the PLD phase.

I've been wanting to solo heal Thordan for a while now. Just need to find the people to let me practice.

[Zaj_Quilos]

The job is fine. Nocturnal Sect needs to be tweaked a bit and Shuffle needs to be improved but that's it.

[CookieMonsta]

I have been playing Astrologian since it was introduced and it is my favourite class in the entire game. I have a geared one as my main at i203 and I am a damn good AST if I do say so myself. I never understand why people like to shite on AST as a healer when compared to SCH and WHM.

There is good......and there are those that have cleared A3S and/or A4S.
The majority of AST reputation is based on their current performance in the last two turns of Alex Savage. Just look up FFLOGS yourself, there are like 40 ASTs on the list of A4S cleared vs hundreds of WHM + SCH. There is more than a misconception here, the class still needs tweaking for it to become great.
Oh, additionally, a signifcant number of those ASTs on FFLOGs are simply there to pad the parse numbers, most of those teams are so good that healer composition means little.
While it is true that AST is a class that scales well with skill, most of the truly excellent ASTs are simply top tier players who would do well with any other healer too.