The Current Ecnomical State of ARR

[Sollux]

But not the fault of new players, who get hit by this pretty hard.

Basically, red scrips are where they've really messed things up at. That's where the real problem lies.

This isn't a problem, it's something that happens in every MMO. A new player cannot expect to immediately enter Endgame content for Crafting OR Combat if they start months later. The Crafting system functions differently in that the time between gear progressions is MUCH longer than it is for Combat, this hasn't changed since 2.0, the only difference is that the best gear is now locked behind a weekly cap. Even then, a properly melded white set can Craft everything up to 2* which means a diligent player can reach up to 2* levels of Crafting without touching Red Scrips at all.

[MomomiMomi]

This isn't a problem, it's something that happens in every MMO. A new player cannot expect to immediately enter Endgame content for Crafting OR Combat if they start months later. The Crafting system functions differently in that the time between gear progressions is MUCH longer than it is for Combat, this hasn't changed since 2.0, the only difference is that the best gear is now locked behind a weekly cap. Even then, a properly melded white set can Craft everything up to 2* which means a diligent player can reach up to 2* levels of Crafting without touching Red Scrips at all.

Not really. A player is combat endgame ready within a week of reaching level 60. Not so with crafting.

And to say it's something that happens in every MMO isn't quite true since it did not happen on this one until red scrips were added.

[Sollux]

Not really. A player is combat endgame ready within a week of reaching level 60. Not so with crafting.

And to say it's something that happens in every MMO isn't quite true since it did not happen on this one until red scrips were added.

3* Recipes are the Crafting equivalent of Midas Savage, and I guarantee you a new player would not have the skills or gear to clear Savage levels of content in a week. An experienced player starting a new character/class could probably clear A5S in the first week, but definitely not A6S+, and it's the same way for Crafting. An experienced Crafter making a new character/class could be Crafting 2* recipes in their first week of reaching 60, but definitely not 3* as it would require massive amounts of gil for i170 gear, something I don't assume everyone has.

And it IS something that happens in every MMO INCLUDING this one, the only difference is players are used to this kind of system for Combat, not Crafting/Gathering, and that's what is throwing people off. Before 3.0 you could be Crafting Endgame ready within a day depending on how much gil you spent on it, which was a shame because the Crafting system FFXIV has is complex enough that it deserves it's own Endgame and that's what we got with 3.0.

[MomomiMomi]

3* Recipes are the Crafting equivalent of Midas Savage, and I guarantee you a new player would not have the skills or gear to clear Savage levels of content in a week.

Which part am I missing? Beginning of 3.2: Current players had ilvl 210. New player within a week: ilvl 210 armor + 220 weapon. Skill is gained by doing the content, which they can do.

Crafters, on the other hand, can't. They're locked out of 3 star.

For 3 stars to be equivalent of Midas, you would be able to attempt them, but not guaranteed to succeed, in the same amount of time. They aren't equivalent. The barrier is set much higher for crafting. And skill is pretty much absent for crafting.

[Sollux]

Which part am I missing? Beginning of 3.2: Current players had ilvl 210. New player within a week: ilvl 210 armor + 220 weapon. Skill is gained by doing the content, which they can do.

Crafters, on the other hand, can't. They're locked out of 3 star.

For 3 stars to be equivalent of Midas, you would be able to attempt them, but not guaranteed to succeed, in the same amount of time. They aren't equivalent. The barrier is set much higher for crafting. And skill is pretty much absent for crafting.

The example wasn't meant to compare difficulties, it was meant to compare how Crafting is gated similarly to Combat, and I apologize for not elaborating. In terms of gating in comparison to Combat, I consider 3* to be at least A7S+, and 1*-2* to be A1S-A6S.

Just because you can ENTER A5S doesn't mean you can clear it, and if you can't you're locked out of A6S+ until you can gear up through weekly caps.
Just because you can CRAFT 2* doesn't mean you can HQ it, and if you can't you're locked out of 3* until you can gear up through weekly caps.

Clearing A5S gets you better gear and unlocks A6S and eventually A7S and A8S.
Making HQ 2* gets you better gear (i170) and eventually unlocks 3*.

Speaking on skill, you're correct that there's no skill required when you can be told "Get these stats, use this rotation", but there most certainly is for the people who found those numbers and that rotation. Especially on a new patch with new gear/rotations, the first few Crafters to find those optimal stats and rotation are going to make much more than others unwilling to experiment.

The main thing hurting new players (Or new Crafters in general) is that there has been no catch-up gear for Crafting and no increase in Red Scrip cap or reduction of the token cost for the i180 gear. Yes, Crafting content is harder to break into than Combat, but it's also not as essential as Combat is to enjoying the majority of the content the game has to offer, nor does it get as many updates or additions. You can complete the entire storyline, every Primal, and every Raid without even unlocking a single Crafting class. The same can't be said in reverse.

[Sardonia]

When 3 star crafting came out they should of either removed the red script cap or lowered the amount of scripts needed for the 180 gear. Granted I can craft any of the 2 star items but it gets extremely costly when melding. Granted all 180 will not get you to 3 star but the MH, OH and perhaps body with other pieces can greatly help and save you some gil in the long run without spending millions on overmelding. At least I have all the accessories and belt overmelded which greatly helps since you can use it on any crafting class

[Sollux]

When 3 star crafting came out they should of either removed the red script cap or lowered the amount of scripts needed for the 180 gear.

I completely agree with this statement, and don't know why they haven't at the very least increased the Red Scrip cap.

Granted all 180 will not get you to 3 star but the MH, OH and perhaps body with other pieces can greatly help and save you some gil in the long run without spending millions on overmelding. At least I have all the accessories and belt overmelded which greatly helps since you can use it on any crafting class

Actually, it will. With full i180 including the new i180 OH, white accessories with minimal Tier IV overmelds, and HQ Seafood Stew you CAN reach 3* capabilities.

Source: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/TB9K

I put this together quickly and it could probably be cheaper, but this build only requires 4 29% Tier IV overmelds and a single 16% Tier IV overmeld. I even planned for it to have enough CP for Rath's rotation. If you have all your accessories capped and every i180 piece then you have the ability to Craft 3*.