AOE-ness, or Area of Effectiveness

[Ninster]

This is a question that concerns both DPS and Tanks, but I'm sure duplicating this would be frowned on, so I'm going here with it. If it needs to be moved, I apologize but would appreciate this going where it's supposed to go.


One thing I've thought of after doing Level 60 and Expert Roulettes over time is where the "mass pull" standard in endgame dungeons reaches its limit. I know that when the tank pulls more than they can hold (or survive) everything falls apart, but how does mob size affect things?

For example, take the trash stretch between the first and second bosses of Pharos Sirius Hard. In the mix of coblyns and kobolds, there's two ogre-sized constructs. If a tank decides to he can pull everything to the bomb incubator and survive (and the healer does well), just how bad or good is this for AoE DPS? As a summon main, I sometimes have issues placing Shadowflare or finding the right mob to hit with Painflare to hit everything. That being said, I'm NOT an EXPERT on summon by any means, so maybe I could learn something here.

So... how much is TOO much from the DPS perspective? Where the tank pulls far more than your AoEs will reach?

[SchalaZeal]

Frankly, as long as the tank and healer survive (and ideally no one else dies), the pull has no 'limit. I don't really try to micro-manage where my Painflare's gonna hit and if it might miss some. It'll hit some and that's the point. As for where to put the shadowflare, I'd say middle of the mob once the tank is 'stable' even if he moves it out (to avoid some aoe, or grab a stray add), he should move it back in soon to maximize dps. Tri-Bind can be a decent aoe during Dreadwyrm or after, if the pull is huge, doesn't put you in danger like Blizzard II.

Note that I did see some tanks that seem 'allergic' to my Shadowflare, bringing mobs just out of it, seemingly on purpose.

[Derio]

It all depends. Usually when I do a mass pull I do a small pull before that one to gauge the DPS output of the group. If its high, then mass pull away. If its low, I will keep at a steady pace. I guess in your case the tank probably knew the healer and knew any AOE damage was going to be enough since he didnt have to worry about heals.

[Dotsusama]

Ground-based AoEs like Flaming Arrow and Shadowflare are the worst for me, as a tank. I feel the need to try and keep a pack within the area, to not waste it, but often times I have to weave in and out of attack cones, reposition to block/parry (a real problem with some tanks, I've noticed...), and then go fetch the occasional patrol, pop, or loose add.

My baseline is usually this: "If I cannot hit everything with a dead-center Overpower, I have pulled too much."

That said, it is quite the feat to pull a pack so large that abilities such as Painflare, Fire II, Holy, etc, cannot hit them if the player targets the middle of the pack and fires it off. I'd say that much is too much. But as others have said: as long as you can survive it, and your healer isn't screaming, DO IT. And feel powerful doing so.

[xXRaineXx]

As long as the tank does not single pull every trash in the dungeon... ie, big guy sitting in corner, just pulls one smaller trash in front of it... *tableflip*

Also, it should be taken into consideration your party comp. If it's like a WHM/BRD/SMN or BLM, and they are all doing work, go ham. If it's just maybe a SCH/MNK/NIN, then it would be a good idea to hold back a lil. I'm not one to judge a players playstyle, but please for the love of the twelve, don't single pull throughout the entire dungeon >.> At least pull everything in the near vicinity, you're not giving anyone justice for single pulling.

[StouterTaru]

As a BLM, I've found that targeting the big mobs with AoE is almost always the worst thing you can do. Targeted AoE appears to spread out from the dead center of the mob it hits.

[SooChe]

With this as a topic, I have a question for smn. When painflare is targeted on a large size mob, does it hit the other mobs surrounding it?

[AskaRay]

Technically too much is like... I think sixty mobs? Because after that, you will keep aggro but do no damage to them.
I can't remember the exact number

[Sove92]

Technically too much is like... I think sixty mobs? Because after that, you will keep aggro but do no damage to them.
I can't remember the exact number

16 is the maximum amount of targets a single AoE can hit, Assize is limited to 15. It still doesn't mean 16 is the maximum practical pull, though.

[Waliel]

With this as a topic, I have a question for smn. When painflare is targeted on a large size mob, does it hit the other mobs surrounding it?

Try to avoid targeting the biggest guy in the pack, as your spells will hit dead center of it an may not reach others. Enemy hitbox is about, if not exactly, the size of its circle under it, and as long as your spell clips it by even one unit of range it does damage.