Gerun Oracles

[Cilia]

Elidibus and Lahabrea have both made claims that Hydaelyn is the root of an imbalance, with Lahabrea going to far as to claim that it threatens to undo the natural order of the corporeal and aetheric worlds. They have both said that they plan to resurrect the One True God, Zodiark, because only He can ensure her complete annihilation. They have both said that the Rejoining will set things right and restore the original state of things (the way they always should have been). Elidibus only talks about balance around Hydaelyn's children, but you can't just dismiss it outright in its entirety because Lahabrea said basically the same thing right before trying to kill us (why lie then?).

Except every hint points to the Rejoining being a compression of all worlds into a state of Genesis - a state of Creation that Zodiark could guide.

Now, Lahabrea freely admitted all of this in the presence of Igeyorhm, so if Elidibus' plan is different from the mainstream, he kept it from Lahabrea. He doesn't seem to have anything different in mind, though, since he too freely admitted that Hydaelyn would be lost and everything would be reverted to some form that they've been trying for seven Calamities to restore. Why, then, when everything else they say matches, does Lahabrea speak of eternal Darkness while Elidibus speak of Balance?

Trying to unravel it all into a coherent "this is what's going on" is making me go cross-eyed at this juncture. What I'm missing could be anything. It's all true but not in our best interest, or there are different goals that overlap in certain places or not others, or someone's lying about something... What's the key? Maybe I'll be able to nail this final bit when we learn why Calamities happen later in the 3.X series.

To be fair, Lahabrea didn't really seem like he was going for the deathblow in that first fight. He did state his intent to kill, but he was hardly trying compared to his performance in the Aetherochemical Research Facility. Granted this can be chalked up to arrogance on his part and Hydaelyn Herself actively assisting us in that fight, but even so.

More to the point, the thing with Lahabrea (etc.) wanting more darkness and Elidibus trying to maintain the balance is a matter of perspective, I think. Lahabrea (etc.) wants to bring forth more darkness and chaos proactively - he's very aggressive with his strategies, trying to get as many Primals summoned and stir up as much shit as he possibly can. He was behind the Calamity in some way (apparently?), got the primals summoned, led the Rogue XIVth to refurbish the Ultima Weapon, helped them start a war with Eorzea, etc. They all seem to be actively trying to bring more chaos into the system.

Elidibus, on the other hand, is reactive and defensive. He prefers to negotiate and has only acted violently in defense (once, against Minfilia). That said, his comments on "balance" are likely something more like "The balance is shifting towards light, which is bad for our plans." He'd be perfectly fine with it tipping toward darkness, so it's not that he wants to maintain balance for the sake of having balance - the order we're bringing is just reducing the chaos, which is detrimental to the Ascians' plan(s). I'd say the Warriors of Darkness are here to screw everything we've worked so hard to accomplish up, but with only that brief scene with Darklander, I'm still not sure where their true intentions lie - much like Elidibus.

[CyrilLucifer]

To be fair, Lahabrea didn't really seem like he was going for the deathblow in that first fight. He did state his intent to kill, but he was hardly trying compared to his performance in the Aetherochemical Research Facility. Granted this can be chalked up to arrogance on his part and Hydaelyn Herself actively assisting us in that fight, but even so.

He was playing with us, definitely lacking the intent to kill.

Nabriales says when he fights you: I will not toy with you, as does Lahabrea.

[Cilia]

He was playing with us, definitely lacking the intent to kill.

Nabriales says when he fights you: I will not toy with you, as does Lahabrea.

Oh I know, every engagement (which isn't too common these days)...

I shall not toy with you as does Lahabrea! Witness the terrible might of a true servant of Zodiark!

... just pointing out that Lahabrea telling us the truth because he was totally going to kill us, and thus could afford to, doesn't really float since he wasn't trying (very hard) to kill us.

[Kuwagami]

Interesting to see that Nabriales calls himself a "true servant of Zodiark" when comparing himself to Lahabrea. I wonder if the ascians are really united, even without considering "special snowflake" Elidibus

[CyrilLucifer]

Unrelated, but in regards to Lahabrea and Elidibus -
I apologize for bringing this back up, but since the comparison between them being "true believers" was mentioned a bit earlier in this thread, look at Nabri's statement there, because he directly mentions Lahabrea, but the important part is the latter statement:

Witness the might of a true servant of Zodiark!

Bolded for emphasis.
While this may just be Nabriales being Nabriales, and he seemed to hold distaste the other Ascians equally, but he's either implying he doesn't believe that Lahabrea is a true servant of Zodiark - which doesn't seem to be the case, since he's working with him despite hating him - or that he doesn't believe Elidibus is. The latter seems to be believed by many of "the others," since, I quote, they "doubt his intentions." Keep in mind that Nabriales also mentions Elidibus a few times, as well.

However, Elidibus feels that Lahabrea isn't the true believer, which really puts an interesting spin on things, in my humble opinion, and is why I'm really hoping for an inter-faction debacle at some point.

Actually, I hadn't gotten a Chrysalis battle in my Trials for over two months and I was starting to miss the guy, so I went and solo'd him on WHM. It took about 25 minutes, but it's really fun, I'd recommend it.

Edit: Ah darn, ninja'd about the True servant part by a few minutes while I was typing the post up.

[Anonymoose]

What he said was 'Things are tipping too far towards Light, any further and *our goal will fall out of our reach*'

That's the way I see it, as well, at the moment. However, there's enough resistance to my impression of Elidibus that I continue to doubt and attack my own views. If it's wrong, I'd rather it fell apart quickly and helped me get on to something better, lol.

To be fair, Lahabrea didn't really seem like he was going for the deathblow in that first fight. He did state his intent to kill, but he was hardly trying compared to his performance in the Aetherochemical Research Facility.

Aye, it's hard to gauge. Unleashing Ultima, at least, didn't seem like an attack on anything but Hydaelyn's protection, shattering the "shield of Light" with the "hammer of Darkness" and leaving you vulnerable. After Gaius fails to take you out and he steps in, though, he does appear to change gears (from toying with you earlier) and at least declare intent, saying that the Castrum will be your tomb. I'd prefer harder evidence that he never really expected you to die before leaping to that conclusion, though. He was pretty convincing.

The growing imbalance afflicting the planet must be redressed. If it is permitted to worsen, the very laws of existence─both aetheric and physical─will be warped beyond all recognition. Know you the root of this corruption? Hydaelyn! Like a parasite, she must be burned out if the planet is to recover. And naught but the return of the one true god will ensure her complete excision. Yet to pave the way for the master's return, a chaotic confluence of untold proportions must needs be brought about. And that will necessitate the presence of the primals. Needless to say, both you and your Scion accomplices can not be suffered to interfere in this endeavor. You will not leave this place alive.

EDIT: Retroactive donning of the Darksteelfoil Hat.

If the "logic" of Elidibus about equilibrium cannot be trusted (and, again, I just can't hop on board with that premise while the conclusion seems to be hitting the RESET button on Creation) perhaps they're referring to the cycle of the eras itself; that Hydaelyn's interference in Zodiark's first coming (which I assume is the world their souls ascended from) has sent a ripple through the universe where the "unworthy" mortal element has spent ~10,000 years rocking the boat of a new Creation in a way that they feel will inevitably capsize; annihilating even the "spark" in the Darkness from which a new Genesis could be formed.

If so, pretty much everything they say finally makes sense. They think things were better off under the "old order" and that the inheritors of the universe are going to ruin it, so they join up with the bitter, exiled god - the "true" god - and give the mortals the nudges they need to fulfill their destiny as awful custodians of the planet, aiming to burn out Hydaelyn and hit the reset button. But... the fall of Zodiark's first coming and the subsequent rise of mortals happened for a reason. Theoretically, if we cast down the Ascians, prevent His resurrection, and stop rocking the damn boat, the Seventh Astral Era can last for all time with the reins of history in the hands of man. (Until a subsequent expansion.)

Okay, so maybe that's a pretty big leap, as well. I kinda let that get away from me for a minute there.

Interesting to see that Nabriales calls himself a "true servant of Zodiark" when comparing himself to Lahabrea.

I didn't see it as implying anything too meaningful, myself. Nabriales stated pretty clearly that he felt he was much more qualified to sit at Zodiark's right hand than Lahabrea was. How could he see him as anything but an inferior servant? Seizing Tupsimati and initiating a Rejoining all by his lonesome was a great way to say, yeah, but look what I can do - I'm not wasting any time; I'm just winning. Incidentally, it was also a great way to get himself treated to the business end of an auracite Pink Floyd laser show, which is decidedly not winning.

[Kuwagami]

New interesting fact :

Know you the root of this corruption? Hydaelyn! Like a parasite, she must be burned out if the planet is to recover. And naught but the return of the one true god will ensure her complete excision

Be that true or not (Hydaelyn corrupting the world), it opens a way to ally ourselves with Lahabrea. IF Hydaelyn is indeed bad news, and IF there is a way to adress the problem permanently without resorting to bringing forth Zodiark, there MAY be a way to side with him. Lots of "if"s , but interesting to keep in mind

[Belhi]

Here is the thing. Everything we have seen in game and without except what has come from the Ascians themselves points at Hydaelyn being both benevolent and caring. Even this recent quote suggests a protective mother. 'Fearing the moon she cast her children to the sea'. Its not just that. Look at Dragonsong and Answers which we know are written to be Hydaelyn's perspective.

This makes me think, that even if there is some truth in what the Ascians say, its a half truth. There are details and context missing.

It interests me that the first thing Hydaelyn says to the WoL is 'look, think, feel'. I have always felt Hydaelyn has very much wanted us to follow our own judgement. Whatever the reason, she has invested a hell of a lot in the WoL. I'm pretty convinced that at what seems to be a very late point in this conflict between light and dark the WoL is her trump card, possibly more so than any of the other players have realised. The Ascians say themselves that she expended a lot of her energy protecting her champion. She doesn't seem to want a mindless minion. Infact she has given us rather little direction, generally leaving us to do our own thing and rely on the wisdom of friends and allies. For someone she is so invested in that is surprisingly hands off.

On a side note, since Krile mentioned that different people's Echos tend to manifest different strengths I've been very curious what particular properties the WoL's Echo has. Makes me wonder if the 'beacon of light' thing might be kind of literal.

[Kurogaea]

It's that time of year again;


I'm guessing "the sea" would either by Hydaelyn (the planet) or the universe/aether/Lifestream/etc., since "the Star" also shows up... Not much to really work with in the first half, the second half though;

"the sea sundered in fourteen", now that is interesting... We have the Twelve, who are actually thirteen (Nald'Thal), but fourteen? Well, I'd take that as confirmation for Zodiark being the "fourteenth"... Alternatively we keep the Twelve as twelve, and Hydaelyn and Zodiark make up the remaining two.

Hmm...I assumed the "fourteen" was similar too the eorzean cycle of eras. Like Umbral and Astral. 14 times and we get the 7th Astral era. Sea sundered

my friend believed to be around the time when the void ark shot a hole into the "sea" of clouds revealing the void.

other stuff im not so sure yet

[Nalien]

Since the Chrysalis has been brought up, does anyone else find;

Insatiable hunger of the void!
Devour all light and return this world to perfect darkness!

A bit interesting? He seems to hold the Void in fairly high regard... I almost wonder if the Ascians are essentially Voidsent... I mean, they work the same as most; A large portion of Voidsent manifest themselves in Hydaelyn by possessing something, be that suits of armor or dead bodies... Heck, Ascians can certainly do the later... Our introduction to them also involved Voidsent, not to mention Haukke Manor was their doing... Servants of Zodiark seem to wield it well, in much the same way servants of Ifrit wield fire...

Now a question. What was going on before the various Calamities;

3AE: Xandes/Amon were planning to open a Voidgate large enough to allow the Cloud of Darkness to flood the world.
5AE: Mhach seemed to be winning the War of the Magi, Void mages...
6AE: Remember our little introduction to Atomos? We had a practical Void Invasion going on...

Granted, we're missing most of Eorzean history, but that almost makes me wonder if the Rejoining is merging Hydaelyn with the Void... With the Calamities actually being more of a final defense. Did the Ascians anticipate Louisoix going Primal on Bahamut? I kind of wonder what would have happened were he allowed to continue his rampage... Just drawing close to the planet was already corrupting aetherytes and unleashing Voidsent, his brief rampage created a lot of corrupt crystals, though I don't recall any Voidsent around them... If correct, would this technically change the Calamity? Bahamut wasn't the Calamity, in the same sense the War of the Magi wasn't the Calamity, it was just the cause.

That would, of course, make Louisoix the Calamity... An interesting thought though, what if the Calamity was in fact more to do with how he combated Bahamut; The ability for man to become Primal. Each Calamity changed the world somewhat, after all... That's a bit more substantial a change than creating an ice bridge I suppose, but it is after that event that Lahabrea has Ysayle and Thordan VII attempt the concept... We're missing large gaps in history of course, this could have happened plenty of times before, but didn't it seem new to the Ascians as well?