Gerun Oracles

[CyrilLucifer]

I think it'd be pretty cool if we ended up having to side with Elidibus, Garlemald and the Warriors of Darkness against a much greater threat. Even if it's only for a while. It's not as if the Final Fantasy games have shied away from having that happen. Remember Rufus? Gabranth? Kain? Kuja?

It's really what they should have done with Gaius.

Not going to lie, I totally am hoping for one of those battle quests like at the end of 3.1 with Elidibus as an ally.

Please SE. Please. I know it's a forlorn hope (just like my Ascian minion), but I want it so badly.

[Theodric]

Not going to lie, I totally am hoping for one of those battle quests like at the end of 3.1 with Elidibus as an ally.

Please SE. Please. I know it's a forlorn hope (just like my Ascian minion), but I want it so badly.

That'd be pretty awesome! I wouldn't worry too much though - there's quite a lot of people who prefer the more morally dubious characters. Myself included. I'm hoping this extends to the developers as well, especially if they're fans of the other games.

[Anonymoose]

I've just wrapped up a fresh pass through my tome of everything the Ascians have ever said. TL;DR it didn't help much.

90% of the references mesh with what we've already put together. The Ascians breed chaos, chaos is entwined with Darkness, Darkness covers the world and leads to the rise of Zodiark. A major part of the plan is teaching the arts of summoning so that various gods will be risen and set against one another in great wars - it's a pretty reliable strategy.

Elidibus and Lahabrea have both made claims that Hydaelyn is the root of an imbalance, with Lahabrea going to far as to claim that it threatens to undo the natural order of the corporeal and aetheric worlds. They have both said that they plan to resurrect the One True God, Zodiark, because only He can ensure her complete annihilation. They have both said that the Rejoining will set things right and restore the original state of things (the way they always should have been). Elidibus only talks about balance around Hydaelyn's children, but you can't just dismiss it outright in its entirety because Lahabrea said basically the same thing right before trying to kill us (why lie then?).

Except every hint points to the Rejoining being a compression of all worlds into a state of Genesis - a state of Creation that Zodiark could guide.

Now, Lahabrea freely admitted all of this in the presence of Igeyorhm, so if Elidibus' plan is different from the mainstream, he kept it from Lahabrea. He doesn't seem to have anything different in mind, though, since he too freely admitted that Hydaelyn would be lost and everything would be reverted to some form that they've been trying for seven Calamities to restore. Why, then, when everything else they say matches, does Lahabrea speak of eternal Darkness while Elidibus speak of Balance?

Trying to unravel it all into a coherent "this is what's going on" is making me go cross-eyed at this juncture. What I'm missing could be anything. It's all true but not in our best interest, or there are different goals that overlap in certain places or not others, or someone's lying about something... What's the key? Maybe I'll be able to nail this final bit when we learn why Calamities happen later in the 3.X series.

All I know right now is that I'm going to be pretty dejected if it's revealed that the other thirteen facets of the Sea are the worlds Lahabrea and Elidibus didn't come from. You know, Vana'diel, Ivalice, etc. and that by saving Hydaelyn, we save all of Final Fantasy. You know, like not letting XIV sink helped accomplish. Heartwarming though the theme is, please no. Leave that kind of stuff to Dissidia.

I hope it's something more, like, whatever dimensions gave rise to theories about the Seven Heavens and the Seven Hells.

[Kuwagami]

All I know right now is that I'm going to be pretty dejected if it's revealed that the other thirteen facets of the Sea are the worlds Lahabrea and Elidibus didn't come from. You know, Vana'diel, Ivalice, etc. and that by saving Hydaelyn, we save all of Final Fantasy. You know, like not letting XIV sink helped accomplish.

Isn't that already debunked by the existence of FFXV ? Or did they only change the game's name and made it a part of Grand Pulse's world as well ? (I can vaguely remember something said about the Nova Crystallis saga, but I don't know what was said exactly).

Anyway, such a lore would effectively put an end to the FF series (or they pull some BS afterwards like "Hey, we forgot that world there"). I don't think they want that to happen right now. I can't see it being a good commercial move with the huge delay FFXV got through the years of failed development.

[Anonymoose]

Isn't that already debunked by the existence of FFXV?

It doesn't seem to be a likely outcome. I was just mulling over all the info and happened to stumble through the progression, "Collapses worlds? And Lahabrea and Elidibus are from this one. And there are fourteen facets of the Sea..." and I had a moment that I, to be frank, needed to exorcise from my consciousness, lol.

You never know, though. Who expected Final Fantasy XIII to be the real-time death rattle of a collapsing universe that ends with

Lightning emerging in the New World of (possibly but not confirmed to be) modern-day France down to real-world train models?

[Morningstar1337]

Isn't that already debunked by the existence of FFXV ? Or did they only change the game's name and made it a part of Grand Pulse's world as well ? (I can vaguely remember something said about the Nova Crystallis saga, but I don't know what was said exactly).

They said that XV is no longer a part of the Nova Crystalis saga anymore.

[Frederick22]

snip

Maybe Elidibus's plan is something completly different but with the same goal ( destroy the WoL ). Lahabrea always used aggresive startegies, maybe his orther ascian is doing ways slowly and being smarter?
Using doubt, true evidence, and deceit. To make us be confuse, so we dont see whats right and whats wrong, and keeping us apart of our main goal to weaken us.

Maybe he understand that he isnt going to beat us if he is constanting atacking us on the contraty in may make us even stronger. He may just be using a very different way, our trojan horse.

[Cilia]

Elidibus and Lahabrea have both made claims that Hydaelyn is the root of an imbalance, with Lahabrea going to far as to claim that it threatens to undo the natural order of the corporeal and aetheric worlds. They have both said that they plan to resurrect the One True God, Zodiark, because only He can ensure her complete annihilation. They have both said that the Rejoining will set things right and restore the original state of things (the way they always should have been). Elidibus only talks about balance around Hydaelyn's children, but you can't just dismiss it outright in its entirety because Lahabrea said basically the same thing right before trying to kill us (why lie then?).

Except every hint points to the Rejoining being a compression of all worlds into a state of Genesis - a state of Creation that Zodiark could guide.

Now, Lahabrea freely admitted all of this in the presence of Igeyorhm, so if Elidibus' plan is different from the mainstream, he kept it from Lahabrea. He doesn't seem to have anything different in mind, though, since he too freely admitted that Hydaelyn would be lost and everything would be reverted to some form that they've been trying for seven Calamities to restore. Why, then, when everything else they say matches, does Lahabrea speak of eternal Darkness while Elidibus speak of Balance?

Trying to unravel it all into a coherent "this is what's going on" is making me go cross-eyed at this juncture. What I'm missing could be anything. It's all true but not in our best interest, or there are different goals that overlap in certain places or not others, or someone's lying about something... What's the key? Maybe I'll be able to nail this final bit when we learn why Calamities happen later in the 3.X series.

To be fair, Lahabrea didn't really seem like he was going for the deathblow in that first fight. He did state his intent to kill, but he was hardly trying compared to his performance in the Aetherochemical Research Facility. Granted this can be chalked up to arrogance on his part and Hydaelyn Herself actively assisting us in that fight, but even so.

More to the point, the thing with Lahabrea (etc.) wanting more darkness and Elidibus trying to maintain the balance is a matter of perspective, I think. Lahabrea (etc.) wants to bring forth more darkness and chaos proactively - he's very aggressive with his strategies, trying to get as many Primals summoned and stir up as much shit as he possibly can. He was behind the Calamity in some way (apparently?), got the primals summoned, led the Rogue XIVth to refurbish the Ultima Weapon, helped them start a war with Eorzea, etc. They all seem to be actively trying to bring more chaos into the system.

Elidibus, on the other hand, is reactive and defensive. He prefers to negotiate and has only acted violently in defense (once, against Minfilia). That said, his comments on "balance" are likely something more like "The balance is shifting towards light, which is bad for our plans." He'd be perfectly fine with it tipping toward darkness, so it's not that he wants to maintain balance for the sake of having balance - the order we're bringing is just reducing the chaos, which is detrimental to the Ascians' plan(s). I'd say the Warriors of Darkness are here to screw everything we've worked so hard to accomplish up, but with only that brief scene with Darklander, I'm still not sure where their true intentions lie - much like Elidibus.

[CyrilLucifer]

To be fair, Lahabrea didn't really seem like he was going for the deathblow in that first fight. He did state his intent to kill, but he was hardly trying compared to his performance in the Aetherochemical Research Facility. Granted this can be chalked up to arrogance on his part and Hydaelyn Herself actively assisting us in that fight, but even so.

He was playing with us, definitely lacking the intent to kill.

Nabriales says when he fights you: I will not toy with you, as does Lahabrea.

[Cilia]

He was playing with us, definitely lacking the intent to kill.

Nabriales says when he fights you: I will not toy with you, as does Lahabrea.

Oh I know, every engagement (which isn't too common these days)...

I shall not toy with you as does Lahabrea! Witness the terrible might of a true servant of Zodiark!

... just pointing out that Lahabrea telling us the truth because he was totally going to kill us, and thus could afford to, doesn't really float since he wasn't trying (very hard) to kill us.