Gerun Oracles

[Fenral]

It's not often I get to put my background in Classical Religions to use, so I'm just going to leave some notes here for others to pore over, since everything started somewhere.


Final Fantasy, at least as far back as when FFIII really outlined a recurring mythology, has modeled it's "balance" after one of the oldest constructions known: the concept of Yin and Yang. Final Fantasy XIV has borrowed this superficially in its Astral and Umbral cycles, but with a twist: we seem keen on returning everything to light. This isn't anything revolutionary, it's even older than Christ.

Both have solid foundations going back thousands of years, and neither is really "superior" to the other in their own context (Zoroastrian "light" is quite temperate and non-dogmatic, a universal "good" that isn't quite "good" as you normally think of it). The problem is what happens when these two collide.

The Frashokereti is pretty intense. Evil is destroyed forever and the world returns to its state at creation, though individual identity is retained. However, in Taoist philosophy, good and evil are entirely perceptional, and intertwined as such that one cannot exist without the other. For one side to "win," if that were even possible, it would consequentially obliterate itself.

It could be shaken up so that Eldibus is really evil and trying to convince poor, mourning Uri that the dark needs to win for everyone to have a happy ending, but for now I think it's safe to assume Eldibus is in the Taoist camp, while we children of Hydaelyn think Light needs to win.

Really, we're still stuck on the question of what happens if either side wins, and the consequences of that victory. It could be all roses, a world where everything is good and we walk without shadow. The Ascians seem keen on returning us to oblivion, but that's probably not their goal for all of creation, since they're pretty attached to their own lives and Zodiark. I assume there's something they're after besides oblivion.

The third option is if either side "wins," the universe itself reverts to some primordial state without the boundaries that define us. This is most clearly defined in Final Fantasy III, where the Cloud of Darkness (and theoretical Cloud of Light) is the agent of that end. FFXIV's Cloud of Darkness seems to be different, but that kind of begs the question of why so much effort went into that callback to begin with...

[Nalien]

Given how damned pissed I'm going to be if we don't get Primal summoning... I like to think we might get a victory for the Light side, resulting in a flood of Light, which we then combat by summoning Primals for shits and giggles... Hydealyn becomes an unstoppable force that would destroy everything without Zodiarks opposition, but we can just pop an Ifrit and drain Her now limitless source of aether to delay the inevitable. A flood of Light from a being we know has a serious leech problem isn't all that threatening, come to think of it...

[Enkidoh]

Given how damned pissed I'm going to be if we don't get Primal summoning... I like to think we might get a victory for the Light side, resulting in a flood of Light, which we then combat by summoning Primals for shits and giggles... Hydealyn becomes an unstoppable force that would destroy everything without Zodiarks opposition, but we can just pop an Ifrit and drain Her now limitless source of aether to delay the inevitable. A flood of Light from a being we know has a serious leech problem isn't all that threatening, come to think of it...

No offense Nalien, but I think that ship has long sailed - the game has been stating from pretty much the beginning that 'Primals=BAD!' and the fact that as the Warrior of Light we're known with a terrified respect by the Garleans as the 'eikon slayer' (amongst other things), I really don't think that idea about FC's summoning a full-size Primal will ever actually be implemented, and has instead since been discarded by the development team as another concept which isn't really workable. But hey, I've been proven wrong before!

The thing that stands out to me is really there is nothing I've seen anywhere in or out of the game that hints at Hydaelyn being anything but benevolent to the people that live on her. Even the actions of her agents are often tempered with a desired to help those who dwell on the planet. The Ascians on the other hand seem to generally act in a manner where the lives of others have little value, focused only on returning their one true god. If I judge just out of the actions of the players, for the people of Hydaelyn at least, the servants of Hydaelyn seem far more interested in protecting its people.

Likewise, Elidibus is very manipulative. He has had several chances to talk to us and if he really thought he could convince us we were in the wrong why hasn't he actually told us 'the truth'. Instead the Ascians have chosen to manipulate us and when we became to powerful and difficult to control have attempted to remove us. Elidibus doesn't strike me as someone trustworthy.

This is what I feel too - that Hydaelyn has never been shown as anything other than benevolent and concerned towards the various lifeforms that dwell on Her, where as the Ascians have always been depicted as malevolant, untrustworthy, dangerous, and downright evil, concerned with nothing other than the revival of their ambiguous dark god. Hells, they don't even really care for each other's well being - remember Lahabrea's dismissive attitude at the very end of 2.55 when talking with Elidibus about Nabrieles's complete destruction? They're a group of sociopathic monsters utterly convinced of their own smug superiority.

One thing these lines have had me thinking is perhaps the gripe between Hydaelyn and Zodiark was actually born from the mortal races. Perhaps the current set up is outside the natural order but perhaps mortals very existence is an aberration of the natural order. Perhaps for Zodiark, killing us all is returning things to their natural state. The whole, sundered into 14, makes we think that perhaps the Rejoining is about returning the seas back to a single existence. Back to it's natural state. Of course again, there is a very real possibility that mortals wouldn't survive that.

We currently don't know enough about the 'universe' of FF14 to really draw anything conclusive I think. I don't however think Zodiark's victory will be in our best interests. Let's remember that Hydaelyn has been growing progressively weaker for thousands of years. Everything is pointing to the war being currently in Zodiark's favour.

Ironically, when 1.0 was released and the first trickles of FFXIV's lore came out, there was a mention in the 1.0's manual about how various wars throughout Eorzea's history have been regarded as 'wars of the Heavens', and that the citystates were actually fighting on behalf of their respective Guardian of the Twelve. Of course even the manual shrugged about whether this was indeed true or not (and at that stage, Hydaelyn as a 'goddess' and for that matter, Zodiark too, were completely unknown and never mentioned in the game).

I disagree that the Ascian's endgame of the 'Rejoining' is 'returning things to a single existence', in that they've consistently said it's to bring about the rebirth of Zodiark at Hydaelyn's expense. In fact, Elidibus is the only Ascian so far who seems more interest in the idea of 'balance', although again, that might just be another means to an end to try and arrest our growing potency and prevent Hydaelyn from regaining Her strength - if hypothetically 'balance' was attained whose to say he wouldn't then say "Okay, now to make the pendulum swing in the opposite way to darkness and Lord Zodiark's rebirth! Mwhahahahaa!" Because time and again, the rebirth of Zodiark is stated as being the Ascian's goal, a change towards darkness instead of Light.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Given how damned pissed I'm going to be if we don't get Primal summoning... I like to think we might get a victory for the Light side, resulting in a flood of Light, which we then combat by summoning Primals for shits and giggles... Hydealyn becomes an unstoppable force that would destroy everything without Zodiarks opposition, but we can just pop an Ifrit and drain Her now limitless source of aether to delay the inevitable. A flood of Light from a being we know has a serious leech problem isn't all that threatening, come to think of it...

Alphinode: Uhoh, Hydaelyn's Aether is going critical again.

Me: No worries, I got this. <Summons Shiva for some light house keeping, Louisoix, Moenbryda, and Ysalye for some pleasent company for a few days>

Alphinode: OK, looks like the Aether is stabalizing. <hops down from Ysalye's lap> Alise, Uriange, Time to say good by to Moen and Grandfather.

Alise and Uriange:

[myahele]

It seems seems as if there are other planets that have (or had) life and Midgardsomnr is the best example of that. I personally believe Midgardsomnr's world died due to the Crystal's old age ... or it's inhabitants draining it's Aether

So my guess is that each planet has a Crystal and what makes the Plant we're currently in so special/ an anomaly is that the Crystal were shattered into 2 Crystals: Hydaelyn (light) and Zodiark (dark). Due to this since they both now have individual personalities compared when they were One Crystal.

Zodiark wishes to merge back with Hydaelyn to become One again (as it originally was) while Hydaelyn fears a rejoining and spread her "children" across the "sea"

As it stands, if all life are Hydaelyn's children then that means she grows stronger as more and more life is made and eventually upon death their excess aether will go to Hydaelyn and the cycle goes on ... until Zodiark's children disrupt it

But what caused the split that caused Zodiark and Hydaelyn to be "born" since they were One Crystal? I guess this is that "something happened that was never meant to happened" that the Asciens are constantly on about.

Here's something that someone got from the cancelled 1.0 Titan fight:

Hoping to discern the origin of the Echo, you engage Titan in discussion. He confirms that the origin of your blessing is not a god that has been called to the land, but cautions against trying to summon whatever it is. The overuse of such methods, he reveals, surely invites only death and disaster.

We already know that the echo if from Hydaelyn herself and who knows just how much plot was changed since 1.0; however, it seems that Titan and also Ifrit don't want the WoL to summon the one who gave us the echo (Hydaelyn)

[Morningstar1337]

Because I never played XI, I don;t know all the details. but didn't one of the crystals there create the Tarutaru, Mithra, Galka etc, after something happened with her counterpart? I think that a similar thing might be playing out here with Hydaelyn and the spoken races if that "children spread out to the sea" part is any indication

[Belhi]

The thing that stands out to me is really there is nothing I've seen anywhere in or out of the game that hints at Hydaelyn being anything but benevolent to the people that live on her. Even the actions of her agents are often tempered with a desired to help those who dwell on the planet. The Ascians on the other hand seem to generally act in a manner where the lives of others have little value, focused only on returning their one true god. If I judge just out of the actions of the players, for the people of Hydaelyn at least, the servants of Hydaelyn seem far more interested in protecting its people.

Likewise, Elidibus is very manipulative. He has had several chances to talk to us and if he really thought he could convince us we were in the wrong why hasn't he actually told us 'the truth'. Instead the Ascians have chosen to manipulate us and when we became to powerful and difficult to control have attempted to remove us. Elidibus doesn't strike me as someone trustworthy.

One thing these lines have had me thinking is perhaps the gripe between Hydaelyn and Zodiark was actually born from the mortal races. Perhaps the current set up is outside the natural order but perhaps mortals very existence is an aberration of the natural order. Perhaps for Zodiark, killing us all is returning things to their natural state. The whole, sundered into 14, makes we think that perhaps the Rejoining is about returning the seas back to a single existence. Back to it's natural state. Of course again, there is a very real possibility that mortals wouldn't survive that.

We currently don't know enough about the 'universe' of FF14 to really draw anything conclusive I think. I don't however think Zodiark's victory will be in our best interests. Let's remember that Hydaelyn has been growing progressively weaker for thousands of years. Everything is pointing to the war being currently in Zodiark's favour.

[CyrilLucifer]

The thing that stands out to me is really there is nothing I've seen anywhere in or out of the game that hints at Hydaelyn being anything but benevolent to the people that live on her. Even the actions of her agents are often tempered with a desired to help those who dwell on the planet. The Ascians on the other hand seem to generally act in a manner where the lives of others have little value, focused only on returning their one true god. If I judge just out of the actions of the players, for the people of Hydaelyn at least, the servants of Hydaelyn seem far more interested in protecting its people.

That's really why I think, or really just hope, they're going to pull a FFXI/XIII (Altana/Etro) and make it so that Hydaelyn is too benevolent. In her desire for the best lives for her children, she causes an imbalance that harms the rest of existence.

[myahele]

Yeah, i don't think she's malicious, but at the same time her end goal probably isn't that great either. Either side winning aren't good, especially if they were one being/crystal before splitting up.

[Fenral]

I think I've mentioned before that I don't think mass death is the purpose behind the Ardors/Rejoinings. Too much of Eldibby's current game plan has been genuinely beneficial to our continued existence, and not in a way that makes it seem like we're being saved for some greater destructive purpose. Case in point: Darklander killed a primal. He should have no reason to if he is a) an ally of the Ascians and b) trying to destroy all life on Hydaelyn. There's something else going on there that we can't see from our current perspective because we're too busy putting out fires.