Gerun Oracles

[Fenral]

While we're on the subject of Goddesses who mean well, the actual true nature of the Sea of Chaos that consumed FFXIII-dom wasn't simply "the dead souls of humanity."

It was the dead souls of all the Yuls who died throughout history. As in, there were that many, and Caius knew all of them. Etro reincarnated the same person so many times their souls combined into a world-devouring horror.

Kind of a shame it got relegated to a sub-episode after all that buildup.

So yeah. If Hydaelyn is pulling anything like that, we need to stop her, even if she means well. Ideally with a non-lethal option. At any rate, I'm guessing that restoring "equilibrium" means finding a way to bring back Zodiark without killing Hydaelyn in return (and not simply trading light for darkness). End goal being that they oppose each other for eternity and leave us out of it.

[dragoelete]

While we're on the subject of Goddesses who mean well, the actual true nature of the Sea of Chaos that consumed FFXIII-dom wasn't simply "the dead souls of humanity."

It was the dead souls of all the Yuls who died throughout history. As in, there were that many, and Caius knew all of them. Etro reincarnated the same person so many times their souls combined into a world-devouring horror.

Kind of a shame it got relegated to a sub-episode after all that buildup.

So yeah. If Hydaelyn is pulling anything like that, we need to stop her, even if she means well. Ideally with a non-lethal option. At any rate, I'm guessing that restoring "equilibrium" means finding a way to bring back Zodiark without killing Hydaelyn in return (and not simply trading light for darkness). End goal being that they oppose each other for eternity and leave us out of it.

its not quiet that simple.

the reason for yul being that way is not from being reborn over and over or at least not the only reason. the main reason is the fact she was constantly being reborn while keeping the memories of all her previous and future selves while also seeing her own future death repeatedly each time.

[Anonymoose]

So Zodiark in this world being Chaos Incarnate could actually have some merit if we start to think of Hydaelyn as Gaia.

Before the act of cosmogony got dragged into this, that was my very first impression of Zodiark; an in-cosmos representation of the out-of-cosmos Darkness, a shadow cast by the existence of Light (astral and umbral in all things), and something Hydaelyn had to find some way to keep in check. It still makes sense, but I had a hard time rooting it in the concept of pre-Hydaelyn existence and, in the brainstorm, just kept on jogging past the idea.

Though I'd personally equate The Primals/Eikons the being To Titans rather than The Primordials (As That would only contain Gaia Earth Mother, Uranus Skyfather, And Chaos the One that is All)

I went back and forth on this before posting, too. Calling the primals the Titans made so much sense when it was Twelve versus Primordials, so it's entirely possible that (when we considering that the Ascians themselves might have some connection to something we might consider divine) we jumped a tier too high since ... wow, we really haven't filled out much more of this Eorzean/Greek parallel theory since 2013.

Far from two decades, my proficiency on the matter ends at "Googled key words and got swept up by a Wiki-nado", so I'll defer to you on likelihoods.

[Cilia]

I'm just throwing out what I can that encompasses as much of the Ascians' dialogue (which is supposed to hint at the truth) as possible.

The only thing I can't account for is the Ascian's dialogue to the pre-Dark Side Warriors of Darkness, about how killing him won't save "their" world. Perhaps it's a parallel world, or perhaps even stopping the Ascians is pointless because of entropy. /shrug.

[Kallera]

I'm just throwing out what I can that encompasses as much of the Ascians' dialogue (which is supposed to hint at the truth) as possible.

The only thing I can't account for is the Ascian's dialogue to the pre-Dark Side Warriors of Darkness, about how killing him won't save "their" world. Perhaps it's a parallel world, or perhaps even stopping the Ascians is pointless because of entropy. /shrug.

I like to think that killing all of the Ascians either causes something cataclysmic to happen, or, with the mortal world lacking the turnover of conflict, the sentient races grow too massive or powerful for the world to sustain.

So "the world" turns on them...

Course, that's just a theory, but I think the point of that flashback was to introduce that killing the Ascians, while sought after by many, may introduce a host of other problems owing to a "permanent victory".

[CyrilLucifer]

The only thing I can't account for is the Ascian's dialogue to the pre-Dark Side Warriors of Darkness, about how killing him won't save "their" world. Perhaps it's a parallel world, or perhaps even stopping the Ascians is pointless because of entropy. /shrug.

There's something off with that Ascian in general, being the only speaking unnamed one in the entire post-2.0 game. I think a lot of us share similar theories about it, though, if that crack theory/headcanon thread is to be believed.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Basically, yeah. That's kind of what is fun about it though.

That needs to be the "Official Lore Forum Motto".

"Shooting in the dark is the fun part".

[myahele]

maybe the reason why the WoL is "encroaching the power of gods" is because we're (unconsciously) being infused with the left over aether of all the Primals and creatures we've defeated? Such is true for how relic weapons need the ambient aether of the defeated opponent in order to get stronger, so potentially that might happen to the WoL?

Maybe that's the WoL own "special echo abilities" since it's been said in 1.0 and now again with Krile that each echo users have a unique ability. At the very least that might explain why the WoD are also killing Primals

[Kotemon]

I'm late to the party; again..

Lets see if I got this right:

The sea = Lifestream

Sun= Hydaelyn

Moon = Zodiark

Fourteen = Astral and Umbral Eras? Makes sense if you think about it.

Children = Some primals. I don't think Bishmark, Moggle and the bug are aware of Hydaelyn like the others. (That needs to be explained after remembering the description by the dragons of what Bahamut and Shiva were). Inversely it could be those who have the Echo and other such direct objects. That seems to be the likely association given Matoyas info about the eye and possible Lore around the Zodiac Braves.

Shiva's summoning appears much like how Terra transforms into an Esper. Perhaps that's the difference between her and Odin to the other summonings.

His Doom = Still possibly not primals but likely the Ascians or possibly whatever the dragon is guarding. Likely a metaphor (or something) like the "goblin train" in XI, not an actual Doom Train.
XIV's version of Pandora's Box?

Void = Empty space between realities. Thanks unknown origin for Gilgamesh.

[Rhodkr]

I've been reading this thread and there is a bunch of great insight and ideas on how the next year will go. I've noticed something though, everyone is assuming the 14 refers to 12 ascians, eldibus (I need to work on learning to spell these names) and Zodiark.

I figured I'd throw in an idea of my own. What if the twelve referr to 13 Ascians and Eldibus? What I mean is what if the Ascian that represents Gemini isn't 'an' Ascians but a set of twins? Just my two cents.