Question On HNM's

[Shipp]

Not going to respond to each point individually, because at the end of it, what you're basically doing is arguing against people having another option of how to obtain items, for no other reason than:

1) You were doing "real HNMs" while people were doing Valkurm Emperor - I have no idea how that's relevant at all to the conversation and, frankly, seems like gratuitous ego-stroking on your part. What you were camping or when has absolutely zero relevance to this discussion, or the suggestion I've put forth. How the drops were handled on the HNMs you fought back when you fought them is not the kind of system I'm suggesting.

You said:
Remember how it was handled in FFXI with rare/ex items? They put rare/ex versions of items (Emperor Hairpin, etc) on the world mobs and placed the non rare/ex versions as possible rewards in BCNMs.


No, only regular NMs were handled that way at first. Emperor Hairpin is from Valkurm, not an HNM. This thread is discussing HNMs and how THEY were handled. It finally changed later, but for years you were required to camp if you wanted the gear.

2) You don't enjoy aspects of it yourself - You are not, nor do you represent everybody.

3) You don't know anyone who "genuinely enjoyed it" - Irrelevant. You do not know nor represent the preferences of every player on every server.

Didn't say I did, though in all my years of playing XI, I never once heard, "I actually like sitting around for 3 hours where I'm afk or talking to people for 29 minutes between each window." Since you've made plenty of assumptions, and still refuse to actually read what I type and just take it for what it is without over-analyzing it and assigning some non-existent double speak to it, I'll go out on a limb and make an educated guess here. I never heard even 1 person say what I just mentioned, yet I heard the majority of people on my server say they hated camping kings, or they only liked the actual fighting and the funny drama going on at the camping. My educated guess here, is that people didn't like the 3 hour mechanics of actually camping. The liked the drama and the mob fighting.

4) You can't imagine anyone enjoying the camping aspect of it - That's called an Appeal To Incredulity. It's a logical fallacy, not a valid counter-argument. That you can't imagine there's anyone who would enjoy it has no bearing on the fact that there are.

I didn't say nobody enjoys it. I said I can't imagine anyone enjoying it. I'm college educated, you can quit trying to pull out the logical fallacies you learned in debate class when your prior posts were twisting my words to mean something I didn't say and complete assumptions of various things.

So your entire argument is based around what you personally like or dislike, what you presume others like or don't like, and whether or not you can believe someone would like something you don't like.

Let me break it down for you one last time since you're just a bit stubborn and refuse to think of the possibility that you misread my previous statements, even after I clarified them.

I do not want to see HNMs as they were implemented in XI prior to drops being available other ways.
Why:
1. 21-24 hour spawns create obsessive behavior.
2. 3 hour windows encourage botting.
3. If the exact same drops were available in an instanced version of the fight, the majority of players are going to to that. When there is no competition for world spawns, there is no difference from going to some place on a map and killing a boss walking around that nobody has claimed versus going to an instance and killing that monster for the exact same loot.

It is wasted development time for a small portion of the playerbase.

Now, my alternative:
1. Keep world HNMs on a longer timer, around 21-24 hours.
2. Decide on a set number of hours after the boss is killed that it will spawn. Ex: If they choose 22 hours, then after that monster is killed, 22 hours from the ToD it will 100% respawn that very minute.
3. Cut out the waiting around for 3 hours and I'd largely be fine with the idea.
4. Do not allow HNMs to drop a piece of crap crystal as their only loot, or another piece of crap like a generic <mob type> whisker.

Do you understand my stance now?

The thing is.. people have stated - right in these forums - that they'd like to have that kind of content in the game. A few people I've spoken to in-game have noted that they'd like to have that kind of content in the game.

They don't ever explain what PART of that content they enjoyed. Did people secretly love the aspect of sitting around a camp for 3 hours waiting until the very last window for when a lesser king would spawn? I didn't see love for that aspect, and I have seen no posts clarifying that a lot of people do indeed love that aspect. I know people who liked the social aspect, the drama, and the actual fights.

Please, anyone reading this who loves sitting around for 3 hours doing nothing except chatting with people, please tell me you love sitting in a virtual chat room doing nothing but talking for 3 hours so you can have a chance out out-claiming the bots that every linkshell has and actually fight the mob. PLEASE inform me that you love sitting around doing nothing in the same spot for 3 hours since this is the only aspect that I have said I am against.

Even if they only accounted for 20% of the population, that's still 20% of the population who would have the option to partake in content they enjoy.

I absolutely can not understand what you would have against that... beyond not wanting content to be in the game unless you like it personally.

Because you fail to actually read my post without injecting your own hypothesis into it as to why I think the way I do.

As for 1-to-1 matches hardly ever happening in rare drops...Whether or not you were fighting HNMs while others were fighting NMs, or when you were fighting them is, again, completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that a system such as that used for regular NM drops could also be implemented in XIV to the same effect - giving people the option of how they prefer to obtain a certain item which would have the same stats no matter how it's obtained.

And that is fine. I don't care if people never stepped foot in endgame, my point was that the topic is discussing HNMs. I AM AGAINST HOW THEY WERE IMPLEMENTED IN XI. I am NOT against HNMs being added in a different way that does not cause people to sit with their thumbs up their butts for 3 hours in a tree.

A person with an Emperor Hairpin was statistically no better or worse off than someone with an Empress Hairpin. Outside the rare/ex status, they're identical. The only difference is how the item was obtained and that people had the option of how they preferred to get one for them self.

I know the stats. My point was that Empress wasn't in the game for YEARS. I am speaking directly of a very specific part of XI. HNM mechanics before they were made useless by instances. I was not originally talking about NMs in my post prior to you bringing them in. I was talking about KINGS prior to TOAU.

Despite your best efforts to paint yourself otherwise, despite all your rationalizations, your overall stance fits you squarely into the category of people I speak out against regularly... those who feel that because they don't like something, that it shouldn't exist - even if they have the option not to do it.

Again, you see me as that because you have failed to read my posts without assuming things. Instead of assuming I mean something that I'm not clear about, ask me about it. It makes you look far more foolish when you jump the gun and start attacking someone based on your own assumptions which turn out to be false.

Edit: Just saw this post by you, Shipp, and it was so perfect that I just had to edit it in.. Consider it a reminder for you to not be a hypocrite, delivered in your own words.

And again, that doesn't even apply, because I'm not arguing against something that won't affect me. Consider taking some reading comprehension classes, because it's clearly not an area you're strong in.