who gets the drop if you only need 2 melee dps?

[Alahra]

Kassatsu crits on each tick with Doton.

I'm aware.

Kassatsu isn't available constantly, though, nor is Invigorate, which NIN needs to reasonably sustain heavy use of Death Blossom, so fairly often, NIN contributes far less AoE damage than the other two.

MNK, on the other hand, delivers consistently high damage thanks to having both Invigorate and Purification to alternate for TP, plus Elixir Field and Howling Fist which have lower cooldowns than Kassatsu (and they can spike their AoE damage considerably with Perfect Balance for rapid acquisition of GL3 and Rockbreaker spam).

Though DRG doesn't have Invigorate all the time, the naturally high potency of their AoE attacks (and the slower attack speed) means that they don't need as much TP for AoE, making their AoE usually more consistent than NIN's as well.

Looking at raw potencies for all three classes doesn't really paint the entire picture, either, as both MNK and DRG have several self damage buffs that factor into their AoE damage (FoF, Twin, GL1-3 for MNK; HT, BotD), while NIN only has the one (poison) that only applies to Death Blossom. MNK and DRG also have more natively powerful DPS cooldowns (MNK gets 20% more crit from IR and DRG gets 15% more raw damage from BfB) than NIN does. Aggressively played for AoE damage, MNKs and DRGs can easily outstrip a NIN in AoE in most situations.

[PFM]

Depends on other outside factors. Are you PLD/WAR? You keep MNK and drop NIN. DRK/WAR drop MNK, keep NIN. MCH instead of BRD? Drop the caster and pick up a third melee & so on & so on.

[Jim_Berry]

Or...just go with what's in the current group if you all can clear it anyway. I hate getting excluded just because I'm a PLD or WHM. That's why I rolled NIN since ROG released, and continue to be a NIN, as it gives me the sense of being a lone wolf, as I don't really have to rely on other jobs (ie DRG > BRD, BRD > BLM/SMN, WAR =/= NIN).

[Jim_Berry]

*SNIP*

By the way, I dislike your signature lol... Probably would have mine if I hadn't lost time due to work (been working 12-16 hour shifts everyday since the 24th of December). Can't wait until Jan 4th, as I'll be off a whole week and can play catch-up.

Grats, though.

[Alahra]

Grats, though.

Thanks. :P I had been hoping for the NIN relic to originally be Kannagi (it was my favorite legendary weapon in FFXI) and was disappointed when we didn't even get Kikoku. I was rather excited to get to work once the item names "discovered," and actually ended up finishing about 7-10 days before I had planned to because I got carried away.

[alsims2007]

Don't kick anyone based on class. Do it based on skill. No class is so op that it's worth taking over someone that is excellent. No amount of raid utility will make up for a bad player

[SwarleyMcSwarls]

Monk aoe isn't even good. They still need a 2nd form aoe move; the fact they don't have one, as well as what aoe drg/nin have, puts mnk behind them. But also as said, aoe dps in raids is rarely much of a factor. Just odd you'd quote it as a selling point for MNK when they're the worst at it.

Umm, check out fflogs on a2s. I feel like monk do ok aoe dps.

[Wadey]

Monk aoe isn't even good. They still need a 2nd form aoe move; the fact they don't have one, as well as what aoe drg/nin have, puts mnk behind them. But also as said, aoe dps in raids is rarely much of a factor. Just odd you'd quote it as a selling point for MNK when they're the worst at it.

Monks have very solid AOE. Just flat out better than NIN and more sustainable than DRG, DRG being more bursty.

As for the main topic - for cutting edge progression content I guess you'd still run DRG/NIN, but we aren't in that environment right now.

Both MNK and NIN are great. You won't be gimping your team taking one over the other. I main MNK, have DRG at 60 and I'm working on NIN, and in my experience all three are solid jobs that bring a lot to a group. Be it damage, utility, whatever.

It's been said countless times in this thread already, but it's fitting; take the player, not the class.

[ErzaScarlet77]

man, now i fear drg will get the shared debuff treatment in 4.0 since it seems like theyre unreplacable at the moment.
another melee with piercing debuff?

[Morzy]

Imo the only reason MNK isn't needed in todays raid is cus we don't need PLD. If everyone needed a PLD in their group for MT, you'd bet that the 2nd tank they chose would most likely be WAR cus WAR is just OP. And if you have PLD and WAR, you might be like some teams back in Final Coil that NEEDED Dragon Kick debuff to even live through the mechanics.

Monk has it's utility. It has Manta and a few nifty surviving abilities; Second Wind, Bloodbath, Featherfoot and you can even toss in Forsight but most use fracture. And while the need to Dragonkick is lessened cus of DRK, that won't be the case if you go PLD/WAR like some statics, including the one I'm in.

Monk used to be the best pre-3.0, hell some teams even went double monk. Now it's DRG and NIN's time to shine and nothings wrong with that. But you won't see me changing my job just cus it will be a small boost in raid dps cus that's not why me and my friends raid. I enjoy Monk and I'll keep enjoying it with my friends.