[Feedback] We need a solution to help players improve... Simple Idea.

[Solarra]

My thing is, every "my suggestion to help the player base" is always a parser/ meter. I think as a forum we should come up with more then that, as there other stuff outside meters that can help.

It bothers me a bit that people can't look past that, and keep suggesting it.

I guess it's the appeal of a quick fix. A personal parser would help people gauge their own performance and I'm all for it. However, it's not going to magically make everyone into better players. As Azazua_Azazua said, there is more to being a good player than topping meters.

It's a tool, nothing more. I can see why they are useful for statics tackling end-game but a lot of people do not know how to read them properly or fail to understand how the mechanics of different fights will affect the results.

[RickXRolled]

What's funny is bad players seemingly don't care about their dps at all, yet they want the best shinies because it makes them stronger. Basically they are saying:"I don't care about my damage, but I want to do more damage".

Learning how to play boosts their dps from 400 to 1000-1300, they don't want that.
Getting better gear boosts their dps from 400 to 420, they feel stronger!

Humans are truly illogical creatures.

[Phoenicia]

Snip.

Battle Log is cluttered and hard to read. Removing mobs and/or party members beats the purpose. What parsers/meters do is convey the same information via graphs and tables making life a LOT easier to find what damage is outgoing or incoming, how many attacks you're missing. You said you're bad at math? Parsers do it for you. All you do with a parser is check the Player/enemy raw, go to desired column (misses), you find DRG with 24 misses over 3 minutes, BAM! "Issue" figured out. "DRG, please use accuracy gear/food, thanks <3".

I only ever used parsers because my brother asked me to because he used to raid lead in SCoB and FCoB. Spending hours looking at cluttered information on the log and manually doing math does not help anyone. Having an app that does it for you and represents it in tables, pie and bar charts does. And we're not talking about who does the biggest number. We are talking about who can meet the minimum 1000 DPS requirement. And who is doing more so others can afford to do less. If we have a 1.6k DPS monk, we can tell the bard the sing more so the healers can heal more. Or if everyone is doing 1.3k+ then we can tell the tanks to spend MORE time in their respective tank stances or healers to heal more instead of DPS more. But not only that, we can also see who is taking damage from what and if that is totally avoidable or not. We can also see who's missing attacks, who's not landing positionals, who's not applying buffs/debuffs, we can see damage type whether it's magical or physical so we use proper mitigation tools. all these "good play" elements you yourself speak of.

And trust me Azazua, I would NOT give advice if the run was going smooth. Why would I tell a tank I do not know to flash more if when he flashes once he holds aggro from everyone? But that doesn't mean I have to wait for a wipe to tell the PLD to flash more because I'm healing EVERYONE except the PLD either. Just because "I" could carry the tank through healing doesn't mean I should let the PLD stand pretty while I tank 3 mobs and the DRG and MNK tank 1 each doing sub-optimal DPS because they can't land positionals and stuff end up taking FAR longer than they should be dying, making everyone's life miserable, well, except for the PLD. Only to have the PLD get the exp and tomes WE worked harder that we should for because of him. I WILL tell the paladin to flash more. I WILL tell the DPS/Tank to get out of AoEs. I WILL teach the party what mechanics they fail at and how to deal with them. I WILL sugar coat it as "advice" as much as possible. But if advice makes me an elitist, so be it. Let us be honest, do not expect me to watch out for everyone's feelings. As a matter of fact, I am doing 3/7/23 people a favor (myself included) by playing the "bad cop" role and voicing what the 3/7/23 of us think. The people in question need to stop being baby girls.

Your disabled person analogy just doesn't apply here. Disabled people are 99.99999% not disabled because they want to be. They didn't go "it's my life and I live it how I want" => *Chop leg/arm off*. Something was forced on them. Call it fate, karma, luck, accident, whatever you believe in, but that's life. They were dealt a bad card. But they didn't choose to cripple themselves. Quite the opposite, they went to the store to buy their needs. Proving they're TRYING THEIR BEST. Heck, the only thing that goes through my mind when I see one is respect. I move on. If I see them stumble or struggle, I may "offer" help or bring them to the attention of those whose job is to help them.

Now let's look at Mr. 350-DPS-Because-I-Pay-My-Sub-I-Play-How-I-Want! or Ms. I-can't-hold-hate-because-what-is-tank? Fate, karma, luck, whatever you or they believe in, has NOTHING to do with it. They CHOSE to not read their tooltips. They CHOSE to not care about what skills do or how they work. They CHOSE to be bad. And by telling you off because they don't want their baby-girl-sensitive-feels hurt, they enforced THEIR choice to be bad on the 3/7/23 others in their group. Which is more rude?

Here is a better analogy: Car parking lot at an apartments building. You have 12 apartments, 12 spots. This guy comes in, parks his car "wrong" taking 2 spots. Is it "rude" to tell him not to take other people's spots? Heck, I consider it rude to park more than one car (In case you own more than 1) in the building's lot. And anyone doing ANYTHING to convey that massage is NOT rude. Maybe taking a knife and ruining the car's paint is. But leaving a note isn't... Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the person in question repeats it and the others in the building just take extreme measures such as toll the car out or the landlord/lady kicks him out and not rent him anymore. (Akin to kicking the "bad" player from group).

Snip

This entire thread is NOT about DPS-meters though.. It is about a solution that is NOT a DPS meter. It is but a grading system after the run that shows performance based on role. What all naySayers did in reaction, however, was lump this solution WITH DPS-meters.

[Azazua_azura]

But it is a meter.

And pho, everything I just read from you comes off elitist

You want ppl to learn??


Stop burning through content


its the skills people use why should u even consider it clutter.

I think some of the complaints and arguments for a dps meter are ridiculous.

And the analogy is perfect helping someone with out asking is condescending.

Was corrected sry for misinfo and late edit

May want to take a step back pho and instead of typing a wall of text, take a look at your wall of text from another pov outside your own.

[RickXRolled]

But it is a meter.

And pho, everything I just read from you comes off elitist

You want ppl to learn??


Stop burning through content


Here is the thing a dps meter doesn't tell you, its the skills people use why should u even consider it clutter.

I think some of the complaints and arguments for a dps meter are ridiculous.

And the analogy is perfect helping someone with out asking is condescending.


May want to take a step back pho and instead of typing a wall of text, take a look at your wall of text from another pov outside your own.

Ironic, since people with autism have a hard time looking at things from another's PoV and caring about anyone other then themselves.( I'm also Autistic)

Also, dps meters do show you the skills used.

[Azazua_azura]

Ironic, since people with autism have a hard time looking at things from another's PoV and caring about anyone other then themselves.( I'm also Autistic)

Also, dps meters do show you the skills used.

new to me then one I saw don't


And wtf is with shi getting slapped in my face -_-;;

[BigRed5392]

Ironic, since people with autism have a hard time looking at things from another's PoV and caring about anyone other then themselves.( I'm also Autistic)

Also, dps meters do show you the skills used.

There was no need to say anything about autism there. Just because someone is autistic doesn't mean they have a hard time caring about someone other than themselves and seeing things from another's POV. I am Aza's boyfriends so I should know.

[Andrea]

And pho, everything I just read from you comes off elitist

Unless Im reading it wrong Phoenicia didn't come across elitist in the slightest there. Just cause you don't agree with them doesn't make them elitist.

Also DPS meters do indeed show what skills are used.

[Kallera]

I feel the problem with pho's argument is, if the rush to efficiency is any indication, people can and will harass, and wall off people with the parser much like other requirements for parties. I'm for improving personal numbers, but i'm wary of how parser numbers will affect us treating each other in the face of the game's penchant for grinds.

[SpookyGhost]

I feel the problem with pho's argument is, if the rush to efficiency is any indication, people can and will harass, and wall off people with the parser much like other requirements for parties. I'm for improving personal numbers, but i'm wary of parser numbers ruling the pf.

If someone wants to kick you for parsing low they already are, just with a different excuse.