[Feedback] We need a solution to help players improve... Simple Idea.

[Delmontyb]

I feel (could be wrong) that we as the community have been asking for (DPS/HPS) and other meters to know how we are doing in game. And while I personally would love that (especially for those on PS3/PS4), there might also be another solution that might help.

I think the key issue against these features is that they could be used to harass other players, and I agree, and don't want that ether, but one of the issues I currently see is that players want to do better, but they don't have the information easily accessible to know they could be doing better.

So here is my idea/solution:

At the end of the dungeon, show your stats for that run, just for you, these aren't public numbers to the other players:

1. Show Your Total Damage Taken
2. Show your Total Damage Given
3. Show your Total Damage Mitigated (Aka Tanks, blocking, skills that reduce damage, and healer buffs that reduce damage)
4. Show your DPS (High / Low / and Average scores)
5. Show your HPS [Heals per second] (High / Low / and Average)
6. Show The Global Average DPS Score for that specific Dungeon (Perhaps for your Job)
7. Show the Global High Score DPS for that specific Dungeon (again just for your job)
8. Show The Global Average HPS Score for that specific Dungeon (Perhaps for your Job)
9. Show the Global High Score HPS for that specific Dungeon (again just for your job)
10. Show where your scores fall against the Global values for your job (did you preform in the top X% of all [your job] out there.
11. Show the number of deaths
12. Party Score (perhaps broken up by two categories - preformed party, and PUG) - also the number of times a party member died, reduces the score value, returns cost more score points, then being raised etc...)

And at the end, the player gets a Rank (S,A,B,C,D...) for that Dungeon, and perhaps there could even be rewards for doing well on your job.

OK, that's a lot of text, but with this information SE could have weekly high scores, or monthly high scores, etc, and rewards that come with that. It could be fun to see who has the highest score on some low level dungeon.

Again, there is room for abuse with any idea, etc, but that shouldn't stop us (or SE) from doing fun things with the game that they built.

Thanks all for your time and consideration. Sorry for the long post.

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Here is an example of a great idea posted in this thread, it's not all about a players DPS, Check it out.

The grading doesn't have to measure DPS or set DPS thresholds tbh. Even if it were on DPS. Higher encounter DPS can ONLY happen through good play. It doesn't matter if you do 4k DPS in 5 seconds (Which is easy when you crit Fire IV or Fell Cleave twice in a row) and then die. Because 20k damage over 3 minutes is 110-ish DPS, which is bad in all considerations.

I said it before, individual grading should be based on the major but simplistic things. For example:

DPS: Positive grades: Total Damage. Encounter DPS average. Party damage contribution (aka Trick attack and Foe). Maybe include eHPS?
Negative grades: Damage taken. Deaths.

Healers: Positive: Total Damage. Total Effective Healing. Party Damage Contribution. Total Shielding and/or damage mitigation. Party raises.
Negative: Party deaths. Own deaths. Over healing.

Tanks: Positive: Total Damage/Enmity. Mitigated Damage. Total Effective Healing. Party Damage Contribution. Party damage mitigation.
Negative: Party deaths. Own deaths.

Group Overall: +ve: Clear time. -ve: Wipes.

Voila, we have a grading system that isn't based on DPS. It promotes teamwork since the others' performance will result in better grades for you. And it also promotes good individual play.

Rewards can be anything that doesn't "hurt" not to have. Tomestones/Experience bonuses so you worry less about running roulettes? Nice. Tokens so you can get vanity? Not bad. As long as it doesn't hurt the game echo system.

[Derio]

Sure would take alot of work to implement. Especially if you do different scores for different dungeons based off of certain aspects.

[AeraLure]

I At the end of the dungeon, show your stats for that run, just for you, these aren't public numbers to the other players:

Well, a built-in parser could work this way too, and I would prefer that, since the majority of PC players are already parsing and watching the performance of everyone they play with, and judging them on that. For that reason I support parsers. That aside, a score at the end is sort of 75% of the way there since most people wouldn't be watching a parser each moment, and really choosing instead to view a summary at the end. I get told my DPS on a fair few runs and I am a healer. ^^

Anyhow, while I support some sort of idea like this, and it would actually make me enjoy the game more (I am on a PS4), SE has come out against it.

[Zojha]

Well, a built-in parser could work this way too, and I would prefer that, since the majority of PC players are already parsing and watching the performance of everyone they play with, and judging them on that.

Are they, though? The only people I know that parse are trying to get into savage raiding or use the tool for other purposes (such as yelling at you to turn away NOW because petrifaction is incoming and they're too lazy to watch the boss).

[AeraLure]

Yes. Not gonna name names obviously but I know a lot of people who parse and aren't specifically in a static. I have also been in enough DF groups (even though I prefer to avoid them) where I was either told my DPS or was privy to a lovely "you aren't doing your job right" DPS arguments.

But to follow up, I would agree a parser is all but necessary for a static. Pretty close to it, despite the fact that I know a Monk with static-worthy numbers that plays on a PS4 like I do. You just have to find someone who parses and is willing to watch you practice to get numerical feedback, as well as feedback from your static runs. It would be nice on PS4 to be able to see it for that specific use, but also for practice.

Maybe as an addendum to the OP a training mode is added where you get full DPS info from a dummy. Not as useful as you miss mechanics effects on your DPS but you can at least practice a rotation with some more info. Helpful to those who say their rotation is better etc - put it to the test. Without a parser it's advisable to go to YouTube or elsewhere on this site and simply choose the hive mind optimal rotation until you can do it vs a dummy in your sleep.

[Delmontyb]

Are they, though? The only people I know that parse are trying to get into savage raiding or use the tool for other purposes (such as yelling at you to turn away NOW because petrifaction is incoming and they're too lazy to watch the boss).

I don't have any real idea of who is, or who isn't, but the general feeling is that people are doing it (not that I'm against that) but to my original point, is that people don't know what they don't know. And giving them that information would be a big help. From my personal experience my friend had no idea he was't doing the best he could, until it was pointed out to him by another player... In this case, the other player was very rude, which is sad and another issue all together, but the end result was my friend changed how he was playing because he wants to be better, and since he is on PS4 he won't ever be able to know this unless it's pointed out, or SE gives him the info so he knows how he's preforming.

[Delmontyb]

Sure would take alot of work to implement. Especially if you do different scores for different dungeons based off of certain aspects.

Not as hard as you might think. Work yes... I'd have liked this over Lords of Verminion (IMO) That took a lot more work

[Delmontyb]

Well, a built-in parser could work this way too, and I would prefer that, since the majority of PC players are already parsing and watching the performance of everyone they play with, and judging them on that. For that reason I support parsers.

Agreed, but if they are against any parser meter in game, this could be a good option at the end of the run to let players know how they did... Their is room for it in Final Fantasy, as FFXIII did this at the end of the fight and gave the user a score/rank value.

The debate on parsers will continue, I'm just offering an alternative solution/idea, because something is really needed, and I find that the majority of players I have talked with want to play better, want to challenge themselves to do better, but they don't have the ability to do so unless they parse. Seems that SE could give everyone some system that is fair and balanced. And even Fun.

[Azazua_azura]

What would really help is if the Na community would stop complaining and start helping.

Getting harassed for learning and communicating NEEDS TO STOP. The "speed run in ds because seals/tome/I did x times" NEEDS TO STOP. People can't learn to play if higher lvl players bum rush content, make petty complaints, or just straight up refuse to help.

Dps meters don't help ppl learn look at dcuo ps3. That has a built in meter with everything u listed and no one works together people just spam. Having a high dps does not ur skilled you can get high, output simply by hitting a hard hitting aloe non stop..

People are starting to become what ff11 players called "wowtards" this was a termed coined by the players to a wow player who acted solo ins group, complain about needing to work together.

I just jumped off the NA community again because people of it.

Sorry, but we need less "stop bitchin start grinding" and less "omg QQmoar" and more WAY more teamwork and WAY more promoting of communication.

Cuz honestly, the Na community I had the displeasure if meeting in df sucked. Worst attitudes ever. And no need for any.


I don't think meters are the solution which 20 thread seem to thing as every player help solution is meters.

What would really help is good old fashion networking, training, mentoring, and communication. We have training dummy's linkshells the ability to set stuff as minimized party and minimal level. These can be used to help teach players with roles and jobs in a comfortable environment.

Call me old fashion but why is every proposed solution a meter??

Why not promote the mentor program, or promote better communication or ease of player to player training??

Also, for personal reasons. I have all my numbers turned off, but I strive to get better in my skill use as any role.

I simply look at my hp bar, and the mobs mp bar. If I tank I try to use my buffs to take the least dig possible while keeping hate. For healer I try to time my stance switching to keep tank alive while using my skills/ buffs and debuffs to help the group out.

As a dps I try to use a good skill rotation to best use my buffs to take out good chunks of hp from mobs. While maintaining any dots. And try to use a comfortable rotation and hotbar setup.

There is more to being a good player then numbers.

[Purrfectstorm]

My suggestion is to make it so you have to get good to earn the best rewards. Tome and raid gear are too close and content is nerfed too fast. I really like that there is an unsynced option. We should rely on higher levels and better gear to beat content eventually not taking away mechanics so the content can be beaten a month later (e.g. Steps of Faith). Right now there just isn't much motivation to try to improve or tackle harder content.