"Changing Tank Damage Calculation"

[Bashum]

I'd still love to see something more inventive that creates incentive to stack VIT, but it's probably more effort than SE is willing to put in.

Warrior - increasing dmg the further from max hp you are. Maybe Fell cleave/inner beast scale based on HP missing?
DRK - One or two of their damaging abilities could consume their own hit points to use?
Pld - uhh... i dunno, they'd probably still be screwed! Or maybe the new Paladin Relic could be something like the Atma weapon from previous FFs. the more hp you have, the more dmg it does.

[RecklessLion]

Just add emnity multipliers to gear for tanks. That way system is not complicated and you can build according to your game play and not get stuck in the meta. We have three classes for crying out loud they should do things in their own perspective way.

[Talith]

This stat - once called “Vigor” on a previous post, would likely appear where STR once was on tank gear and would likely show up as str/vgr/dex on low level disciple of war gear.

I have read many ideas but not this one and its just brilliant.

"Vigor" would allow:

To set the Tank desired HP pool according to ilvl on the left side gear that has Vit
To focus the right side on a fending set that has Vigor and thus regulates the damage output desired (along with enmity)
To set apart tank gear which is specially important in lower levels where I still see some tanks using Disciples of War gear
If you need to tune Tank damage just adjust Vigor and you can leave Str alone and never affect DPS.

Still leaves room for gearing:
Vigor vs Vit on attribute points will still be a thing
On the new raid open melded spots melding Vit vs a DPS secondary will be an interesting thing for tanks to do, and wont require a second set of jewlery.

[Syzygian]

I feel like there's a lot of irrational, borderline-emotional attachment to STR in this thread. If they make our damage scale off VIT and remove STR from our gear are people actually going to be bent out of shape about that? o.o

I wouldn't care if our damage scaled of fucking Parry as long as that stat is on our gear and we can roll need on it. If the stats and calculations are going to change next patch I think people should be preparing to shed their conceptions about what are good and bad stats now before their feelings get hurt in 3.2. No matter what, its not going to change the way our jobs play or affect any of the mechanics of those jobs. I dunno why people are infatuated with having to gear up with stuff you can't need on, I'm certainly fine with that changing and us tanks having a uniform DPS floor/ceiling based on skill and not whether we're wearing our gear or the DPS's gear.

[Giantbane]

VIT scaling would be goofy.

Probably best to just strip all VIT off right side equipment, add it to the left side equips and just have tanks use STR accessories.

[Shinkyo]

I think a good way to change the stat contribution would be to have Tank Damage based on both VIT + STR but with less weight on STR.
If we take the example of current gear and a 3:1 STR to VIT ratio in the damage calculation, we'd have:
- il210 Fending accessories would contribute 49 VIT in dmg
- ilvl150 pentamelded would contribute 29 VIT + (32/3 STR) = 39 primary stat in damage (which would be equivalent to an ilvl190 VIT accessory)

That way, VIT accessories are the clear winner for tanks but Pentamelded ones are still relevant as a stepping stone without being OP.

This would be fairly easy to implement and wouldn't require to completely revisit earlier gear.

[Syzygian]

VIT scaling would be goofy.

I somehow feel like this isn't an effective argument.

Probably best to just strip all VIT off right side equipment, add it to the left side equips and just have tanks use STR accessories.

That wouldn't be changing the calculations of anything, and if you mean literally taking all the VIT granted from full VIT right side and stacking it on top of all the VIT from right side, and then using STR accessories on top of that, that'd be pretty damn overpowered, like wearing full i210 VIT and STR simultaneously. I don't see that happening.

I think a good way to change the stat contribution would be to have Tank Damage based on both VIT + STR but with less weight on STR.
If we take the example of current gear and a 3:1 STR to VIT ratio in the damage calculation, we'd have:
- il210 Fending accessories would contribute 49 VIT in dmg
- ilvl150 pentamelded would contribute 29 VIT + (32/3 STR) = 39 primary stat in damage (which would be equivalent to an ilvl190 VIT accessory)

That way, VIT accessories are the clear winner for tanks but Pentamelded ones are still relevant as a stepping stone without being OP.

This would be fairly easy to implement and wouldn't require to completely revisit earlier gear.

I fail to see why this whole "revisiting" or "revising" earlier gear is certain to be some insurmountable hurdle. They added DEX to old MNK gear in 2.4, I'm fairly certain they could remove STR from our gear if they wished with minimal effort.

I'm not a fan of having this sort of half-measure half-baked damage-scales-off-VIT-but-a-little-bit-off-STR-too just to give the illusion that left side gear's STR would still have some sort of value when, at that point, we'd rather all that STR be VIT since it would be more damage.

Realistically, based on what they've said, they're almost certain to phase out STR make our damage scale off of something else. Even if we're dealing the same damage, it feels like people are going to be butthurt simply because the word "strength" won't be on their gear.

[Shinkyo]

I fail to see why this whole "revisiting" or "revising" earlier gear is certain to be some insurmountable hurdle. They added DEX to old MNK gear in 2.4, I'm fairly certain they could remove STR from our gear if they wished with minimal effort.

I'm not a fan of having this sort of half-measure half-baked damage-scales-off-VIT-but-a-little-bit-off-STR-too just to give the illusion that left side gear's STR would still have some sort of value when, at that point, we'd rather all that STR be VIT since it would be more damage.

Realistically, based on what they've said, they're almost certain to phase out STR make our damage scale off of something else. Even if we're dealing the same damage, it feels like people are going to be butthurt simply because the word "strength" won't be on their gear.

STR is going to be phased out for sure since they've already confirmed you won't be able to meld primary stats on accessories.
But you also need to manage a smooth transition and I doubt people would be happy having their current BIS pentamelded accessories worth nothing in 3.2.
Especially since those tanks may not own any up to date VIT accessories and carry only STR/pentmelded ones.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

I feel like there's a lot of irrational, borderline-emotional attachment to STR in this thread. If they make our damage scale off VIT and remove STR from our gear are people actually going to be bent out of shape about that? o.o

I wouldn't care if our damage scaled of fucking Parry as long as that stat is on our gear and we can roll need on it. If the stats and calculations are going to change next patch I think people should be preparing to shed their conceptions about what are good and bad stats now before their feelings get hurt in 3.2. No matter what, its not going to change the way our jobs play or affect any of the mechanics of those jobs. I dunno why people are infatuated with having to gear up with stuff you can't need on, I'm certainly fine with that changing and us tanks having a uniform DPS floor/ceiling based on skill and not whether we're wearing our gear or the DPS's gear.

I have an irrational and borderline attachment on my damage stat being on my right side gear.
(I also want to roll need on it). My personal infatuation with gearing up on things I cannot need on is related to this. What the stat actually is (parry/vit/#of mininons) I don’t care, so long as I atleast have the option to put this on right side gear.

Syzygian is right. Come 3.2 I will stack as much of my damage stat as possible. My game play will not change, I will still be as aggressive as I can be, while gearing up the best possible way. Just as I have always strived to do.

@Talith – Your words are too kind. I enjoy the potential options this adjustment could generate, tbh I didn’t think about the tank wearing disciple of war gear at low levels, probably because in the last year, I have seen this once - day 2 of 3.0 with a level 30 DRK. (I was healing, cuz everybody was playing DRK that week)

And Syz, I agree the work wouldn’t be impossible, I just assume it’s a matter of time/available resources in combination with the fact that this will be done on an even numbered patch bringing new raid and so on.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

STR is going to be phased out for sure since they've already confirmed you won't be able to meld primary stats on accessories.
But you also need to manage a smooth transition and I doubt people would be happy having their current BIS pentamelded accessories worth nothing in 3.2.
Especially since those tanks may not own any up to date VIT accessories and carry only STR/pentmelded ones.

I recommended a week ago, in this thread, to get VIT accessories, "just in case". I still recommend this in the event SE gives no F's about smoothing a transition. But I personally like to be as prepared as possible.