"Changing Tank Damage Calculation"

[Februs]

Content doesn't have to be old to skip phases.

Except you're talking as if proper mitigation and good damage are mutually exclusive actions.

I didn't mean to imply that high Dps doesn't help. It does. Of that, there is no doubt, and you're definitely right that high dmg and mitigation are not totally exclusive.

As both of you pointed out, killing things quickly in dungeons prevent the need for Tanks and Healers from spending too much Mp or blowing extra def CD's, and burning Trial/Raid Hp bars quickly allows you to push phases, preventing additional dmg from repeated attacks as well ... but neither of these things are mitigation. They're prevention.

It's a bit nit-picky, but mitigation is actually taking the hit and mitigating it. Not taking the hit at all means that you're not mitigating anything. Further, in regards to Trials and Raids, specifically, High Dps might allow you to push phases faster, thereby skipping extra Tank busters, but pushing phases does nothing to help you mitigate the dmg you are actually taking. Skipping an extra Blade Dance is nice, but you still had to mitigate everything that came before. High Dps output does not change that you were using Def CD's. It just stops you from using more of them. Though, pushing phases in current fights is kind of a bad example, because there are long recovery periods after each skip-able tank buster that make extra CD burns irrelevant, and certain hits (like the 3rd H Blade Dance) are actually a mini-Dps check. If your team doesn't prevent it, you are highly unlikely to clear meteors.

Regarldess, you are both right. High dps is most certainly a big help in any fight. It does a wonderful job of preventing additional and unnecessary dmg, and thereby is essential for preventing unnecessary mitigation. However, actually mitigating hits is purely in the domain of Tanking/Healing. No amount of Dps will reduce the actual dmg you take from a hit. It might prevent additional hits, but it does not reduce the impact of the hits you actually take (except in extremely rare cases like Sacred Cross). This is why high Dps is not the "best mitigation." It's just extremely efficient.

[Einheri]

The current dps meta is a result of the content. Fixing the I'm a tank not a dps issue needs to be fixed with mechanics. Damage formulas should address balance issues. Forcing a play style via a new stat or new attack power modifier wouldn't help this but force people to play less than optimally. even forcing tanks into vit with increased incoming damage just increase number bloat. They need more tank mechanics and activities. Sitting there getting punched with 20khp doing optimal damage isn't any better than standing there getting hit in the face with 30khp and doing optimal damage albeit less dps.

[whiskeybravo]

I think I sorta get what you're trying to point out, Ein. But how is forcing a new play style via new stat any different from forcing a new play style via mechanics? I mean, like others have said, if they increase incoming damage to the point where you need vit over str, that's still a dps nerf? So if the change the damage formula instead (let's say they do nerf damage), I mean that's still the same result either way, more HP less dps.

I think, though, it has less to do with dps and more to do with making gear relevant. They are overhauling materia melding, crafted items will be more powerful than they've been able to be in the past since we'll be able to meld raid gear, and I think "fixing" tank damage is part of the plan to smooth out gear progression as we move forward. Because we need to know what a tank is going to bring to a raid. Is he going to do 1000 dps, 500 dps, 754 dps? We need to be able to plan/make expectations and having vastly different gearing options doesn't make it any easier.

[Einheri]

@whiskey that's exactly what I am trying to say. cell phone posting and my poor use of English doesn't help either.

[konpachizaraki]

I heard from 100% reliable sources that they was going to change stats specific to the tank class. WAR = Strength, DRK = Intelligence, and PLD = Piety

holy sh*t that's one way to change the whole things
will be pretty unique though if that happens IMO

[shao32]

I heard from 100% reliable sources that they was going to change stats specific to the tank class. WAR = Strength, DRK = Intelligence, and PLD = Piety

thats is a fake, when new gear comes what happen to tank gear?, whe have our own gear? or we have gear with high numbers of piety, intelligence and str? thats not make sense at all, pld become the most mp pool in the game lol

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

Speaking of new gear - Those of you who lack fending accessories may wish to obtain them or stock pile the eso for them.... Any change away from strength (new stat or vit or other) may make the present str accessories absolutely useless. Any gear adjustments (to old gear) to compensate for a new tank damage calc are likely to be done only on fending gear.

[Lethallin]

My greatest fear with this change is stated above: That my Slaying jewelry will become useless and I'll lose a notable amount of ilvls by having to use my Fending accessories, that I've not really been keeping up on.

Though, I feel as if it won't be such a big change. They'll probably nerf War DPS a bit, and bump up DRK a bit, and maybe PLD a notable amount. I enjoy my role as "Off-DPS" that my static lovingly calls me, but I do feel that I can DPS a bit too much while still being able to turn on tank-mode and tank things just fine.

[Jpec07]

My greatest fear with this change is stated above: That my Slaying jewelry will become useless and I'll lose a notable amount of ilvls by having to use my Fending accessories, that I've not really been keeping up on.

Well here's the thing: they're waiting for 3.2, which is the "next tier," so to speak. Item levels will probably go to 210-230 for new content, so it's gear that you're going to be replacing anyway. Nothing is going to affect the current "progression" raiding, and you'll likely be replacing/matching that gear with new dungeon greens anyway.

That said, I'm still not convinced they're going to be switching VIT for STR as the tanks' main source of attack power. People say it's simple, but that seems incredibly too drastic, especially when considering the entire rest of the game they'd need to retool to match (specifically looking at leveling gear and content).

[Kosmos992k]

That said, I'm still not convinced they're going to be switching VIT for STR as the tanks' main source of attack power. People say it's simple, but that seems incredibly too drastic, especially when considering the entire rest of the game they'd need to retool to match (specifically looking at leveling gear and content).

Would it not be easier for them to increased the impact of Determination for Tanks, reduce the impact of STR, and add a relationship between DET and VIT so higher VIT leads to higher DET. Determination could also be factored into block and parry strength, allowing VIT to influence these things (gosh! a tank's VIT helping mitigation...revolutionary at least to SE). Giving Tanks a reason to stack DET and VIT on their gear as well as STR. Nothing will fix Parry, unless it's completely reworked. In some ways I feel that they should take every piece of gear with Parry on it, and split the Parry score 50/50 with Determination. Not drop Parry entirely, but if it's not going to be a larger factor, then allow some of the stat budget on items to weigh against Determination.