Novice / Beginner / Training Hall -- General Discussion Topic

[Elim]

I think this will only effect the PS4 players who want to parse on their own. As long as parsers are "not allowed" outside of the training hall, the basic DPS will always feel like they're entitled to being coddled and not improve.

[Kaiser-Ace]

In the American South East we have a saying, "You want to know how someone REALLY thinks, get them drunk."

The training room is designed to be a console substitute for PC Parser Programs. The "Basic Training" for players was Guildhests, and they REALLY missed that mark hard.

The main problem is there's no graduation from "Face Roll" to "Mid-Core" to "Hardcore" content. Low Level and story content can be slept through and the only time it wasn't (The Steps of Faith) everyone lost their minds in protest. Then we go straight from face roll 4 man dungeons to "Every Point Counts" 8-Man raids and all of a sudden you get the 20-30 ish hardcore master players teamed up with the people (like me) who are "Just Ok" and the people who couldn't care less about performance (The other 80 and 18 percent of the servers) and then all the hells break loose.

Due to the absolutely massive skill gap between the normal and hardcore content it causes the player divides that are slowly, and will eventually succeed at, killing this game.

The problem actually is complete lack of mid core content and the lack of understanding on the devs part of what "Casual" means. (Hint, Zodiac and Anima Quests are Hardcore content too.)

Until these are acknowledged then nothing will change. I can't even try savage because there's no way to get even close to the gear power I need to compensated for being new to the raids. And being new means I don't already know the fight 100% through. I'll personally like the Self Dps Checks I can do in the training room, but other than assisting me with my combos and rotation timing (Something that few other Mid Core Casuals care about) it'll still not help me with learning the content.

[Aoxaviar]

I understand where the OP was trying to go with this thread, and I agree with the OP that this is something that should be seriously discussed.

However, I am afraid that this Training Hall that will be implemented soon will fail, fall short, and not fully be what some in this thread think it should be for the community overall, and my reasons are the following:

1 - In game Parser - the PS3 and PS4 (including myself as PS4) community have been asking SE for some type of Parser system. The General Community consensus seems to be that they want it for raiding. That's great and good. Personally, I want it so I can finally understand the point of the following comments when in raids and dungeons:

"We have low DPS, we are gonna wipe"

"The DPS check is to low to clear this"

Now, I am not a hardcore raider by any means. I also don't consider myself a midcore raider by any means, even though I do try to clear all of the raids (and no, I haven't finished BCoB completely, but have cleared A1 through A4). By nature I am a completionist type of player. I want the full story of everything including all of the substory lines and weird offshots as well. I play the game for that...and kicking ass in dungeons after a crazy ass work week is a nice way to unwind.

I do believe that this Training Hall is being built as a way to create a Parser for the PS3 and PS4 community in game and to try to serve that purpose.

2 - Rotations and Mechanics - I also believe that the main point for the creation of this Training Hall is to aid Yoshi-P in a comment made after 3.0 launched which was "get good" about the new jobs, and the expansion of the existing jobs as well.

This enviroment will allow for players across the board to learn the skills of a job/class and what they do. Since we have been "told" (quotes because we have been "told" alot of things, and so far no much has come from it across the board) that the dummys in the Training Hall will also fight back (about time SE) to some degree, we will also get a feel for rotations and very generalized to the point of what we see on the open world map for creature/monster mechanics.

With that said, we have also been told we will get 3 types, I expect this to at least show up, but the big question for SE is what will these 3 types have for mechanics? Will they open be world creature mechanics? Will they be Titan and/or some other Primal style mechanics? Will SE go crazy with it and make them have mechanics equal to LoA, CT, and A3 final boss fights but with with a damage debuff so we don't drop dead on a single hit? I fear that we will get 3 types to battle, and the mechanics will be a joke in comparison to what we have seen in CT and VA to this point. Hell, even the new expert dungeons may seem like a rehash of mechanics, but the feel of them is different as well as the dungeon not being hugely linear (topic for another time, but loving the long drops and flying tunnel in A4.)

3 - Individual Based - (But you can duty up for a teacher!!!!!!!) - This is where this content is really gonna fall short. Since it will be solo player based, the top tier players and I would expect most mid tier players are not going to do this content because they play PC and have a parser or already know they are the cheese since they have done their homework.

The mid to lower level players will do it for fun. I agree with some who have commented that this could and will hopefully help the toxic nature found inside the DF and in some cases PF, but I don't seen it being significant. I agree with and do hope that new players and veteran players who have leveled everything but haven't learned everything for every job will be able to get something out of this and also improve themselves as players. However, my last point backs up those that came before it.

4 - Server Population - This will either make a huge server like Gilgamesh a completely kick ass server if it works well, or it will keep it the same. With that said, servers that have nothing going on in the DF/PF will probably not even unlock it since there is no reason to do it because of how low pop they are in the grand scheme of the servers and population densities across them all.

Closing, I like the ideas that truly could become a great side story/plotline with content that could be brought into the game in a literal Training Hall. I personally think that SE is, at the moment, wasting time and resources on this content when they should looking at ways to deal with server crowding and population problems.

Yes, just like in the Real World, people go where the faces and names of the famous and powerful are. In the real world (for the USA) its Hollywood. Online, it seems to be Gilga and Behemoth.

Can't say I blame them, but I am glad that Exodus still seems to have a good population that seems to be a fairly easy going bunch.

[RegentP]

10th degree Black belt here i come

[vp_cmc]

Why is there no discussion regarding this?
I see a lot of topics complaining about housing, the relic, etc. But, this should be a much more focal issue.

Is it already in game? I didn't see anything about it in 3.15 patch notes. If not, than nothing to discuss about for now.

[Brian_]

I'm not disagreeing with reality. It's you who's only looking at this from NA perspective.

I've spent time on both JP and NA data centers. The JP data centers prove what I am saying. Because the general level of skill is higher, people don't have much to be toxic about. Of course, I'm not saying that's the only reason -- the culture is also very different. But, it's not like the JP players don't retaliate against poor play in their own way. They auto disband and they have a centralized witch-hunting and black-listing system for repeated offenders.

The raid community's problem isn't skill level, it's the prevailing attitude driving people away.

And, like I said earlier, your skill level has a direct influence on how you're treated by people. If you are joining groups and pulling 600 DPS as a DRG, they are not going to treat you well. It's a vicious cycle, really. A lot of people I know would've taken the time to help and teach people a long time ago but have grown apathetic at best and callous at worst because the people they try and help don't listen and don't care. To them, they can be bad and get the rewards anyways because the content can either be cleared even with poor performance or better players will carry them.

Maybe this new beginner's hall and mentor system will finally give those players a way to reach receptive students rather than people only concerned with their own individual experience.

Snip.

I don't think a title is enough incentive. Personally, I think they need to gate the next Ex-roulette unlock behind the beginner's hall for that job.

Is it already in game? I didn't see anything about it in 3.15 patch notes. If not, than nothing to discuss about for now.

The idea is we can put out ideas for what it should be and what it should accomplish. It might already be too late for any of this to make a difference. But, at the very least, we should make it known that this matters more than some other issues.

Just in the last dozen posts or so, I've seen some fairly central ideas I agree with.

It should be difficult. It should be made in a way to reinforce individual accountability (though this may back-fire). It should help smooth the transition from the current casual content to harder content.

[MeiUshu]

What is the novice hall supposed to do about ignorant players already at level cap?

Novice hall is not for max cap level....so really what is your point ?

I would be more concerne about max cap level ignorant players becoming mentors..THEN your question makes sense and we both know what the answer will be ALAS

[Kallera]

Novice hall is not for max cap level....so really what is your point ?

I would be more concerne about max cap level ignorant players becoming mentors..THEN your question makes sense and we both know what the answer will be ALAS

Well, seeing as how some of the dummies fight back, I don't see a reason why we can introduce common mechanics or tactics that the player needs to see. (I:e: dive bombs, raid wide damage+tankbuster, how some markers mean different things.(thankfully they've cut down on this.)

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

When this is added, I will be going to it, despite knowing I already have a good sense of whatever given job I play. I will also encourage others in my FC and raiding static to do so. Sure, we may not learn much, but I wouldn't pass up the chance of maybe learning something or learning something better than I already knew it. I think every player should be willing to try it out; you'll lose nothing, but you just might gain something.

[MeiUshu]

Well, seeing as how some of the dummies fight back, I don't see a reason why we can introduce common mechanics or tactics that the player needs to see. (I:e: dive bombs, raid wide damage+tankbuster, how some markers mean different things.(thankfully they've cut down on this.)

ohh no doubt, my reaction was related to ignorant players max capped..you really think they will do those ? nope....eh?..they dont need it..they know it already....