What is the be Healer?

[Sleigh]

SCH's deployed shields weren't needed in A1S and A2S even at launch. I know because I cleared those fights with a WHM partner running AST in Diurnal before ilvl was inflated.

For A3S, the mechanic that supposedly requires shielding is Cascade, and you can't deploy Adlo for every single Cascade in A3S, so if this kind of shielding was needed the fight would be unbeatable. The only shielding you can keep up for all Cascades is Succor and the amount of shielding provided by Succor is slightly inferior to what is provided by Aspected Helios (by 7 potency, I know, but since we decided to split hairs in here, I'll give you that).

I can't vouch for A4S, but since there have been clears with Noct. AST instead of SCH, it's pretty much a given that Deployed Adlo is not required in there.

It was a combination of Succor/Soil/Super-Virus/Deployed Adlo. Needed one or two to survive in i190-i200 in combination with some combination of INT down and Storm's Path and misc debuffs. AST makes that moot though since it can Disable all of them and give a Soil equivalent for half of them. In fact, the big strength of SCH is most of its tools aren't needed to hit a boss, and annoyingly in HW there's been a decent amount of attacks you cannot mitigate via Path/E4E/Reprisal/Virus/etc because the attacks are immediately after a phase shift, or otherwise don't come from an enemy you can target. Basically, T9 Megaflare equivalents.

I mean, the fact that there are Noct ASTs clearing A4S with a WHM partner (there are what, two of them so far?) doesn't prove any viability or being as good or better. It means it's possible. Noct AST is garbage compared to SCH, we all know this, in terms of total healing output, mitigation, consistency, and DPS. Noct AST's barely comparable to SCH while missing a fairy, plain and simple (I'd argue fairyless SCH > Nocturnal AST even, if you just mean pure healing). In something like A4S, you need SCH or Noct AST to survive the final Mortal Revolution. Even with deployed Adlo and Soil, everyone except tanks goes down to 1-2k HP in full i210.

I'm actually not sure why you're arguing what you're arguing. This is a topic about what the BEST healer is, not the, "Are all healers viable to clear content?" topic. SCH's the best right now, or at least, the most irreplaceable, because it's the best shield healer, the most clutch, and the "best" at DPSing in most environments for multiple reasons unless it's truly a dummy phase. Farm, progression, speed runs, doesn't matter, you bring a SCH to everything because you'll clear faster and safer than without. It's a broken class. It's been broken since 2.0 and it's arguably even more broken now because at least there were only two healers to choose from in 2.0.

This is basically turning into the healer version of, WAR isn't OP, both PLD and DRK have cleared A4S, they all have their merits! Nope, you always bring WAR unless you like to gimp yourself, otherwise you lose too much; not just DPS, survivability too. Same with SCH.

[TatoRazzino]

I'm arguing that it's false that SCH is being used for its healing capabilities in endgame content and that people overestimate the job as a whole.

Take the DPS out of the equation, and you can Clear fights without it. Introduce healing requirements that are not catered to SCH's toolkit, and SCH will vanish from parties. SCH doesn't have anything built into the job that makes it better than the other two; it's a fight design problem, and even that is arguable.

Not having a SCH in Thordan was never a problem. A1S week one also didn't require a SCH at all, because HoT's are better than shields in that fight. As usual, people make it seem as if Savage is a living hell that requires constant shielding (which even a SCH won't provide); if that was the case, PLD's Divine Veil would be much more valued than it is. I repeat: it's a DPS issue related to the fact that SCH is the only job built to be an off-healer.

That's what I'm arguing. And the point everyone is making is that no other job is able to do the same as a SCH while DPSing. They never will, because they're not off-healers.

As for the tank issue, it's the exact same problem: SE developed another MT, and WAR is the only job built specifically to be an OT. Take DPS out of the requirement, and you'll see more balance in the tank composition.

Hopefully the next tank/healing introduced will be an off-tank/healer and people will stop with the SCH obsession.

[Fevelle]

The best, as a WHM main I am, is the Scholar. Good at single target heal, good at mitigation, good at HoT (Fey Light + Rouse + Whispering Dawn), best instant heals and best MP management in-game, highest healer DPS capabilities. SCH is a beast if played right.

The point of being the best is NOT being needed, it's the capabilities of the class. Of course there are some types of content where they are more or less capable of doing all their capabilities permit them, but they're still there.

So in-game, Scholar is probably the stronger.
Lorewise WHM is the strongest.

[CBellz]

Hopefully the next tank/healing introduced will be an off-tank/healer and people will stop with the SCH obsession.

This sounds more than just a little salty. There is no obsession with SCH. People are just pointing out that it's far and away the most irreplacable healer. Look at how many hypothetical situations you had to introduce to present a world in which SCH is useless. You said that a SCH would be useless if you removed DPS entirely from the equation, but the fact is that DPS drives the design of this game's meta. You can't use hypotheticals to dispute SCH's value, because the reality is that in this game's current situation, SCH is king. I'm going to go through each of your points.

1. Healing requirements are catered to SCH. No, they're based around allowing all healers to contribute DPS with good GCD management. SCH just does this best.

2. SCH isn't brought for its healing capabilities. False. I would argue that SCH is one of the best single target healers due to its burst capability with Lustrate. In A2S progression, SCH was untouchable not only for its aoe DPS capabilities, but for its reactive single target healing capabilities as well. In a fight like A2S, where damage is not entirely predictable during progression, few tools can match Lustrate. In fact, many fights are based around burst healing, in which case it's very hard to top indom and lustrate.

3. SCH doesn't have many healer tools distinguishing it from other healers. Again, false. The fairy itself is costless in terms of both MP and GCD management. It allows a SCH to heal two targets simultaneously with ease, something only an AST can come close to, and even then only at a rate of once every ninety seconds.

[Houston009]

This sounds more than just a little salty. There is no obsession with SCH. People are just pointing out that it's far and away the most irreplacable healer. Look at how many hypothetical situations you had to introduce to present a world in which SCH is useless. You said that

^THIS so much this.

[TatoRazzino]

They're not hypothetical at all. A1S and Thordan are there to prove it's possible to balance everything without catering to any single healer. There are mechanics in there that make WHM shine, AST shine and few that make SCH shine. Your three lustrates every minute merely match burst you can get by using what's built into WHM's and AST's GCD. Add Tetra and Essential Dignity + Enhanced Benefic's proc + Lightspeed + Synastry and you see that a lot of tools pass Lustrate in healing. That's just overestimating SCH. And I mained it in 2.X, it's the only Zeta I finished and I started Savage with it.

[Jim_Berry]

YOU are... so don't worry. And I'm speaking truth.

[CBellz]

snip

That's not the hypothetical situation I'm talking about. I'm talking about you claiming SCH would be useless without any DPS checks in fights, which is verging on changing core gameplay. As for your point about A1S, seems like you're arguing that all three healers are viable here, which strays from the point. Everyone here is arguing that any optimal (key word) healing composition in these fights includes a SCH.

A SCH can reach 900 potency in a single GCD with physick and lustrate and WITHOUT the fairy every 20s if needed. WHM/ASTs cannot put out more healing throughput without spending mana inefficiently, and this is why SCH is broken. No other healer can get away with 5+ raises in a single fight without ballad and still be perfectly fine on resource management. When you factor in resource management as a factor of healer efficiency, there's just no comparison.

[TatoRazzino]

I didn't mean no DPS checks, I meant no stress on healing DPS numbers and more stress on healing mechanics. And I love how you completely ignore the fact that burning stacks to reach 900 potency reduces DPS output and can mess up shielding or AoE healing. SCHs need a very strict cooldown and stack rotation to heal efficiently, and that's what makes them weaker in healing (read weaker as "less strong") than the other two. When I say that you overestimate SCH is not a way to say SCH's suck or that they don't have their advantages. The multiple raising is one of them, the fairy is another and all of them are tied to what I pointed out before: they branch from a DPS class and were built to be an off-healer. They're the best off-healer in the game and they're going to occupy that spot until SE introduces another job built with that spot in mind OR when they change the meta. Ask a SCH to main heal A3S or even solo heal it as WHM and AST can do (there's a whole thread about it) and you'll see the weaknesses of the job. People will argue that A3S is not suited for SCH, but I'm arguing that the off-healer spot in the meta is not suited to the other two jobs, and you guys are claiming that's all because of how strong the job is and not because the fights and the metas are catered to it. So, prove me wrong and main/solo heal A3S with SCH with the same degree of work you can do it with the other two healers. An overpowered broken job that is the best healer in the game wouldn't have any problems doing that, would it?

[Dyvid]

I\\\\'m training healer classes, so I wanna know what you think. What is the best healer in the game right now.

Well I'm trying to get into healing after my main has been SMN since 2.0. I really really really want to love AST since I played Corsair in XI but I find it so much easier as a SCH. Maybe it's because I'm used to it because of SMN but it feels more forgiving if I make a mistake or something bad happens. In other words I have less wipes in dungeons as SCH than I do with AST. Maybe I just need more practice with AST. Best advice to level them all and find the one that suits you best.