What is the be Healer?

[TatoRazzino]

I'm arguing that it's false that SCH is being used for its healing capabilities in endgame content and that people overestimate the job as a whole.

Take the DPS out of the equation, and you can Clear fights without it. Introduce healing requirements that are not catered to SCH's toolkit, and SCH will vanish from parties. SCH doesn't have anything built into the job that makes it better than the other two; it's a fight design problem, and even that is arguable.

Not having a SCH in Thordan was never a problem. A1S week one also didn't require a SCH at all, because HoT's are better than shields in that fight. As usual, people make it seem as if Savage is a living hell that requires constant shielding (which even a SCH won't provide); if that was the case, PLD's Divine Veil would be much more valued than it is. I repeat: it's a DPS issue related to the fact that SCH is the only job built to be an off-healer.

That's what I'm arguing. And the point everyone is making is that no other job is able to do the same as a SCH while DPSing. They never will, because they're not off-healers.

As for the tank issue, it's the exact same problem: SE developed another MT, and WAR is the only job built specifically to be an OT. Take DPS out of the requirement, and you'll see more balance in the tank composition.

Hopefully the next tank/healing introduced will be an off-tank/healer and people will stop with the SCH obsession.

[CBellz]

Hopefully the next tank/healing introduced will be an off-tank/healer and people will stop with the SCH obsession.

This sounds more than just a little salty. There is no obsession with SCH. People are just pointing out that it's far and away the most irreplacable healer. Look at how many hypothetical situations you had to introduce to present a world in which SCH is useless. You said that a SCH would be useless if you removed DPS entirely from the equation, but the fact is that DPS drives the design of this game's meta. You can't use hypotheticals to dispute SCH's value, because the reality is that in this game's current situation, SCH is king. I'm going to go through each of your points.

1. Healing requirements are catered to SCH. No, they're based around allowing all healers to contribute DPS with good GCD management. SCH just does this best.

2. SCH isn't brought for its healing capabilities. False. I would argue that SCH is one of the best single target healers due to its burst capability with Lustrate. In A2S progression, SCH was untouchable not only for its aoe DPS capabilities, but for its reactive single target healing capabilities as well. In a fight like A2S, where damage is not entirely predictable during progression, few tools can match Lustrate. In fact, many fights are based around burst healing, in which case it's very hard to top indom and lustrate.

3. SCH doesn't have many healer tools distinguishing it from other healers. Again, false. The fairy itself is costless in terms of both MP and GCD management. It allows a SCH to heal two targets simultaneously with ease, something only an AST can come close to, and even then only at a rate of once every ninety seconds.

[Houston009]

This sounds more than just a little salty. There is no obsession with SCH. People are just pointing out that it's far and away the most irreplacable healer. Look at how many hypothetical situations you had to introduce to present a world in which SCH is useless. You said that

^THIS so much this.

[DarkmoonVael]

I'm arguing that it's false that SCH is being used for its healing capabilities in endgame content and that people overestimate the job as a whole.

Take the DPS out of the equation, and you can Clear fights without it. Introduce healing requirements that are not catered to SCH's toolkit, and SCH will vanish from parties. SCH doesn't have anything built into the job that makes it better than the other two; it's a fight design problem, and even that is arguable.

Not having a SCH in Thordan was never a problem. A1S week one also didn't require a SCH at all, because HoT's are better than shields in that fight. As usual, people make it seem as if Savage is a living hell that requires constant shielding (which even a SCH won't provide); if that was the case, PLD's Divine Veil would be much more valued than it is. I repeat: it's a DPS issue related to the fact that SCH is the only job built to be an off-healer.

That's what I'm arguing. And the point everyone is making is that no other job is able to do the same as a SCH while DPSing. They never will, because they're not off-healers.

As for the tank issue, it's the exact same problem: SE developed another MT, and WAR is the only job built specifically to be an OT. Take DPS out of the requirement, and you'll see more balance in the tank composition.

Hopefully the next tank/healing introduced will be an off-tank/healer and people will stop with the SCH obsession.

If you are arguing that SCH is brought in to end game content becasue of DPS alone you are catagorically wrong. You are ignoring the fact that SCH has the most diverse toolset for end game raiding, has the most reliable and possibly the best emergency healing capacitiy, has the best mitigation toolset of any of the healing classes, brings with it a very very powerful fairy and out of the three healers SCH is the one with the least mana problems.

You also seem to glaze over and ignore the fact that SCH are more than capable of solo healing raid content. It was the case in coils that SCH tended to be able to solo heal content before WHM were. The SCH healing kit has been nothing but strengthened in 3.0.

Also the argument that if they design fights that are not catered to SCH kit is a joke of an argument. If they do this for any class, you cna take that class out of the equation. You know this can be applied to WHM and AST equally? Design a fight that doesnt suit either of their kits and take them out of the equation.........your bias here is showing far too much.

A1S also didnt require either a WHM or AST in week 1, what it did require was 2 of the 3 in game healers. SCH brought far more safety to the fight than AST did (or ever will do).

As for Thordan, not having a WHM was never a problem, not having a AST was never a problem. Their toolkits were not needed for this fight either. You know why? Thordan isnt exactly taxing on any healer. Disingenuous argument is disingenuous.

They're not hypothetical at all. A1S and Thordan are there to prove it's possible to balance everything without catering to any single healer. There are mechanics in there that make WHM shine, AST shine and few that make SCH shine. Your three lustrates every minute merely match burst you can get by using what's built into WHM's and AST's GCD. Add Tetra and Essential Dignity + Enhanced Benefic's proc + Lightspeed + Synastry and you see that a lot of tools pass Lustrate in healing. That's just overestimating SCH. And I mained it in 2.X, it's the only Zeta I finished and I started Savage with it.

Add in fairy heals to the equation as well.....the picture is very different than the one you are painting about lustrate compensating for the power of AST and WHM GCD.

[TatoRazzino]

If you are arguing that SCH is brought in to end game content becasue of DPS alone you are catagorically wrong. You are ignoring the fact that SCH has the most diverse toolset for end game raiding, has the most reliable and possibly the best emergency healing capacitiy, has the best mitigation toolset of any of the healing classes, brings with it a very very powerful fairy and out of the three healers SCH is the one with the least mana problems.

The job has no heals built in GCD that can reach above 150 healing potency, requiring a cooldown to do it, and also is a job tied up to using a very small number of stacks to do anything including burst DPS, burst single target and AoE heal. But it's very reliable with a fairy that pops a heal worth 200 whenever it feels like doing (unless you macro it and lose half of its utility). But that's diversity and reliability, and it's my bias that is showing. I wonder what SCH mains will do when SE stops catering fights to the job; maybe they'll play Botanist.

[DarkmoonVael]

The job has no heals built in GCD that can reach above 150 healing potency, requiring a cooldown to do it, and also is a job tied up to using a very small number of stacks to do anything including burst DPS, burst single target and AoE heal. But it's very reliable with a fairy that pops a heal worth 200 whenever it feels like doing (unless you macro it and lose half of its utility). But that's diversity and reliability, and it's my bias that is showing. I wonder what SCH mains will do when SE stops catering fights to the job; maybe they'll play Botanist.

Well they say ignorance is bliss. Let me help your ignorance here.

Adlo: 300 potency shield, 300 potency heal. Emergency 600 potency heal.
Succor: 150 potency shield, 150 potency heal. Emergency 300 potency heal.
Physick: 400 potency heal.
Embrace: 300 potency heal.
Whispering dawn: 700 total potency HoT (aoe).

So about those GCD on sch that dont go higher than 150 potency.......where are they? Is it the case that you flat out dont understand how sch works?

Also fairy heals when the good sch tells it to, the bad sch is the one you describe that doesnt manage the fairy. Also fairy heal potency is 300 for embrace, not 200.

Get your information correct, curtail you obviously blinding bias, and people may start taking you seriously.

[TatoRazzino]

Well they say ignorance is bliss. Let me help your ignorance here.

Adlo: 300 potency shield, 300 potency heal. Emergency 600 potency heal.
Succor: 150 potency shield, 150 potency heal. Emergency 300 potency heal.
Physick: 400 potency heal.
Embrace: 300 potency heal.
Whispering dawn: 700 total potency HoT (aoe).

So about those GCD on sch that dont go higher than 150 potency.......where are they? Is it the case that you flat out dont understand how sch works?

Also fairy heals when the good sch tells it to, the bad sch is the one you describe that doesnt manage the fairy. Also fairy heal potency is 300 for embrace, not 200.

Get your information correct, curtail you obviously blinding bias, and people may start taking you seriously.

Cast Adloquium on yourself. Write down the number. Cast Embrace on yourself. Write down the number. Compare the two. Embrace heals for 2/3 of the value you get from Adlo, which means the 300 heal that's written in the tooltip is scaled to get an output that's worth 200. The same is valid for Whispering Dawn. This has been stated in the forum several times, with a lot of complaints from SCH mains. I suggest you learn more about your job; since the fairy is so important, you should pay more attention to what it does.

And the SCH Emergency 300/600 heals are something both WHM/AST (in any sect) have built in their GCD, not requiring any shared cooldowns. Do you want to embarass yourself more with your ignorance about the actual healing output of the job you play or can we start getting serious with the discussion?

[Houston009]

And the SCH Emergency 300/600 heals are something both WHM/AST (in any sect) have built in their GCD, not requiring any shared cooldowns. Do you want to embarass yourself more with your ignorance about the actual healing output of the job you play or can we start getting serious with the discussion?

Why do you insist on ignoring the shield aspect of SCH's heals?

[DarkmoonVael]

Cast Adloquium on yourself. Write down the number. Cast Embrace on yourself. Write down the number. Compare the two. Embrace heals for 2/3 of the value you get from Adlo, which means the 300 heal that's written in the tooltip is scaled to get an output that's worth 200. The same is valid for Whispering Dawn. This has been stated in the forum several times, with a lot of complaints from SCH mains. I suggest you learn more about your job; since the fairy is so important, you should pay more attention to what it does.

And the SCH Emergency 300/600 heals are something both WHM/AST (in any sect) have built in their GCD, not requiring any shared cooldowns. Do you want to embarass yourself more with your ignorance about the actual healing output of the job you play or can we start getting serious with the discussion?

Embrace is 300 potency, the scaling is different. Many people know this.

So about those heals SCH has that non of go above 150 potency......shall we talk about that now?

Why do you insist on ignoring the shield aspect of SCH's heals?

Because they clearly have no understanding of how SCH works. And when confronted with facts brought up by other that show their arguments hold no validity, they ignore them........

Short CD is still a CD no matter how much SCH mains try to cover it up. Shielding works different than healing, for several reasons. I don't know why SCH players try to cover the job's weaknesses and mechanics with flawed excuses. The job is amazing, and so is WHM and AST. It's just not built to do the same thing the others are built to do. It can main heal with effort, but both WHM and AST can also off-heal with effort. They compensate with burst what SCHs do with sustained. It's not ideal, but the party can manage it with a little effort. I don't know why people are ok with making an effort to accomodate a SCH main heal but it's the end of the world when a WHM/AST want to off-heal.

Please show us where the devs have stated that SCH is this "off-heal" class you base your arguments off.

And its not about people covering up SCH weakness, its about people calling out your misinformation which is quite frankly some of the worst the healer forums have seen in a long long long time.

With this absurd argument you are making about "Short CD", then lets ignore Divine Seal since that has a cooldown, presense of mind, assize, asylum, tetragrammaton, essential dignity, collective unconscious, draw, royal road etc etc etc. The fact that you seem to not understand that this argument you are attempting to make applies to all three healers equally is a joke.