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  1. #61
    Player
    Lyrica_Ashtine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,132
    Character
    Sadako Yamamura
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by VanilleFang View Post
    Pass me some of that popcorn please!
    I ran out on page 5

    Quote Originally Posted by VanilleFang View Post
    If you compare SCH to the other healers at any level you will generally come to the conclusion that SCH makes everything easier and safer.
    I've mentioned something similar on page 3. Sadly it didn't get much attention, so I'll just quote this one so it gets some extra love it deserves.
    (4)

  2. #62
    Player
    TatoRazzino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    364
    Character
    Blair Waldorf
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 60
    ET is a cooldown that works in a completely different way when compared to Divine Seal or Assize. Emergency Tactics transforms Succor into a heal comparable to Medica and Adloquium into a heal comparable to Cure II (when it doesn't crit, of course). If Succor, with its built in shield, worked like a regular heal, there would be no point in being able to use Emergency Tactics with it. That fact alone proves that Succor is different than Medica/Helios and it also proves that ET does not make Succor a stronger spell (it makes Succor a different spell); Divine Seal, on the other hand, enhances all healing spells and is a completely different cooldown. Using Divine Seal and then casting a Cure doesn't prevent you from using it with Regen. Using Emergency Tactics with Succor puts the skill in a cooldown and, for the next 30s, you can't use Succor to get the same effect as Medica or to transform your Adlo in something comparable to Cure II. That's how SCH works: a healing decision either reduces the amount of other actions you can take or prevents you from doing any other actions for a set duration. WHM doesn't have this kind of restrictions, and this is one of the reasons why it's stronger in healing. A job having weaknesses doesn't mean it's bad; weaknesses have to be designed, they're not flaws. And again: ET merely gives the SCH something the other two healers have all the time, so it's not empowering at all. It's a gap filler. Deny that all you want, it's not going to change anything.

    Also, saying that Embrace has 300 potency but scales less it's equivalent to saying it has a real potency of 200. Semantics won't change that and clinging to the tooltip is not going to make that skill stronger. Embrace is comparable to a Regen nowadays, unless you burn a cooldowm to Rouse your fairy for a short duration. I don't know why SCHs are trying to cover that up; it's not needed.
    (0)

  3. #63
    Player Houston009's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    575
    Character
    Straigus Rheyist
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 81
    Quote Originally Posted by TatoRazzino View Post
    Salt*
    Please keep posting, they are all such great laughs. And for that, I thank you.
    (6)
    Last edited by Houston009; 12-28-2015 at 12:16 PM.

  4. #64
    Player
    TatoRazzino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    364
    Character
    Blair Waldorf
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Houston009 View Post
    Please keep posting, they are all such great laughs. And for that, I thank you.
    You're welcome. Glad to see I amuse you, and the feeling goes both ways.
    (0)

  5. #65
    Player Houston009's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    575
    Character
    Straigus Rheyist
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 81
    Quote Originally Posted by TatoRazzino View Post
    You're welcome. Glad to see I amuse you, and the feeling goes both ways.
    I am quite the entertainer.
    (0)

  6. #66
    Player
    DreamWeaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    351
    Character
    Lucidia Dreamweaver
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Best Green Icon Job = Scholar
    Best Job to be actually healing = Not Scholar (Nothing against Scholar's tool kit, but if you spend your time healing more than DPSing in 8 man content.... People may silently condemn you XD).

    Best Job for dungeons = WHM (sue me, but destroying all adds in Neverreap 1st boss with 1 Assize, or blowing up Saint McDonald's Queen Bee's Bees with Assize + Holy, or taking half health of all bomb adds after you killed the Red GhostBuster thing in Pharos Sirius HM with 1 well placed Assize is a magical feeling I won't trade for anything else, TLDR : Assize OP)
    (2)

  7. #67
    Player
    Mimilu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    3,990
    Character
    Mimiji Miji
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Watch, you all are fighting but the OP actually wanted to know what was the "Bee Healer", instead of "the be Healer". :-D
    With all the arguing that is happening in here, I half expect the OP carved the phrase "To the Best Healer" on a golden apple. >w>
    (2)

  8. #68
    Player
    Eul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Dodo's Nest
    Posts
    3,169
    Character
    Knot Destroyer
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    I have all healer to level 60, and my main job is Scholar. Why scholar? Because you can leave your fly (I mean, faerie) to heal tank while you can DPS as SMN (2.0 SMN without Fester).

    For WHM and AST, I like playing with them. The magnificent amount of heal number is pretty awesome.
    (0)

  9. #69
    Player
    Lyrica_Ashtine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,132
    Character
    Sadako Yamamura
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 1
    Since this whole "white mage > scholar single target healing" thing is still going and is still completely subjective, let's throw some numbers in there. Keep in mind that this is in line with napkin math. So do realise that this numbers in the post would be a healing output ceiling that can be reached with White Mage/Scholar. Forget about GCD loss, assume everything aligns perfectly, and that every ability is used the moment it pops off CD and there's no GCD loss. Because why not.

    Let's take a 630 second encounter. Why 630 seconds? Because Regen has this odd 21 second duration and 630 gives White Mage an advantage with an extra Asylum.
    630 second duration equals 252 GCDs when the recast time is 2,5s. That's the maximum amount of GCDs a single player can squeeze out

    For those who can't be bothered with the numbers, skip to the wall-o-text bit under lined up

    Modifiers
    Divine Seal 30%, 15s duration with 60s CD. On average the increase is 7,5% for it's duration, effect and down time
    Rouse 40%, 20s duration with 60s CD. 13,3% increase on average for the fairy
    In case there's an Eos present: Fey Illumination has a 3,3% increase on average

    Abilities (not affected by modifiers)
    Tetragrammaton: 700 potency
    Asylum: 800 potency over 24s
    Assize: 300 potency (although it's AoE, let's throw it in there as a White Mage advantage)
    Lustrate: 600 potency

    White Mage
    30 regens: 33862,5 after modifiers
    222 Cures: 85460 potency after modifiers
    Or 222 Cure II: 155122,5 potency after modifiers
    7 Assize: 2100 potency
    10 Tetragrammaton: 7000 potency
    7 Asylum: 5600 potency

    Cure spamming leads to a total of 144.022,5 potency over 630 seconds and would have spent
    Cure II spamming leads to a total of 203.685 potency over the same period
    Alternating both cures would have a total of 173.853,8 potency

    Scholar
    630 seconds would mean 10 aetherflows and if you assume the Scholar has 3 stacks to start with - Highly recommend for those who aren't doing it yet! - The total amount of available Aetherflow stacks would be 33. Assume all stacks are used on Lustrate for single target healing purposes. As the argument for Embrace is that the potency isn't really 300, but closer to 200. I'll be using 200 potency for Embrace instead.

    33 lustrate: 19800 potency
    210 Eos Embrace (3s recast time): 49186,67 after modifiers
    Or 210 Selene Embrace: 47600 with just Rouse
    252 Physicks: 100.800 potency with Selene, 104.160 if Eos is involved
    Or 252 Adloquium: 151.200 potency with Selene, 156.240 if Eos is involved

    Physick spamming with Eos leads to a total potency of 173.146,7
    Physick spamming with Selene is a bit lower at 168.200
    Spamming adloquium makes no sense, so just assume it's weaved with Physick:
    Weaving spells with Eos has a total potency of 199.186,7
    Weaving spells with Selene is lowered to 193.400

    Lined up
    Cure II spamming 203.685 potency
    Weaving with Eos 199.187 potency
    Weaving with Selene 193.400 potency
    Cure weaving 173.854 potency
    Physick spam with Eos 173.147 potency
    Physick spam with Selene 168.200 potency
    Cure spam 144.023 potency

    If we were to strip out Lustrate completely (19.800 potency):
    Cure II spamming 203.685 potency
    Weaving with Eos 179.387 potency
    Cure weaving 173.854 potency
    Weaving with Selene 173.600 potency
    Physick spam with Eos 153.347 potency
    Physick spam with Selene 148.400 potency
    Cure spam 144.023 potency

    Anyone can come to some sort of conclusion here. I'll just remind you that this is a ceiling either healer can reach. Doesn't mean it's a practical representation of any sort. But the very least it shows a Scholar can rival a White Mage for single target healing. Does this mean White Mage is obsolete? Possible, I'll let you decide on that considering Astrologian is also out there. But I'm not touching that subject (yet). Two things:
    First would be the on-demand healing requirement. No sane White mage is going to blow out Divine Seal. You use it when you can get the most out of it or have no need for it for the next sixty seconds. Cure II would go to 845 potency in a single GCD whereas Scholars are at 600 potency with Adloquium of which half doesn't fill the HP bar. The fairy is an unknown factor as Embrace can land too early or up to three seconds late when you actually wanted it. Yes, a Scholar can compensate with a lustrate and bump it up to a 900 healing with 300 mitigation. White Mages bump up to 1545 with Tetragrammaton. Many more factors of which I'm not even going to touch because it's full of maybe-if-else-what-variables.
    Second issue would be resource expenses. Weaving Cures would consume 165.726 MP over 630 seconds while weaving physick and adloquium would require 189.252 MP. That's not exactly one or two max-ether differences! Yes, Scholars are known to be some infinite MP engine. But they can actually run out of MP, especially with the cost tied to Adloquium.

    Finally, I'm going to address this particular Gem that hasn't been confronted yet on Page 3:
    Quote Originally Posted by TatoRazzino View Post
    Take the DPS out of the equation, and you can Clear fights without it. Introduce healing requirements that are not catered to SCH's toolkit, and SCH will vanish from parties. SCH doesn't have anything built into the job that makes it better than the other two; it's a fight design problem, and even that is arguable.
    Meanwhile the following encounters for 3.0 content has groups stack up rather often for AoE damage so the White Mage can Cure III:
    Alexander floor 1 (savage)
    Alexander floor 3 (savage)
    Alexander floor 4 (savage)
    King Thordan (Extreme)

    And the following encounters occasionally have people too spread out to stay within 15y range:
    Alexander floor 1 (savage)
    Alexander floor 3 (savage)
    Alexander floor 4 (savage)
    King Thordan (Extreme)

    And the content is being catered for just Scholars?
    (2)
    Last edited by Lyrica_Ashtine; 12-29-2015 at 12:01 AM.

  10. #70
    Player
    Shyluv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    652
    Character
    Ahraliah Moon
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 90
    I main AST and used to main WHM. As much as I don't like playing SCH, myself, I agree that it is the most in demand and for good reason.
    (0)

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