Thread: 3.2 Sephiroth

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Question for anyone with a good memory : Do anyone remember if Alexander's entry was there before we finish the MSQ of 3.0 ? He starts moving at that point so that would make sense if he isn't there before.
If he isn't, that could open a way for him to destroy a part of the Hinterlands, because it sets a precedent of different map displays for different players within the same instance.

Heck, even if he doesn't affect the land we can go on, I'd like him to destroy something in the background. Something visible.

There is a spot where his other foot will sit that you can't land on. It's on the island in the river. I imagine it was the same for the first foot. Also the large rock in the shield that you can stand on is where his head will go. Gonna go google an under map pic to see him now though.

Originally Posted by Belhi

Likewise there is issues with having multiple instanced versions of the same area as it can split up the player base.

That's the thing, it potentially wouldn't.

The thing kicking around back when Mor Dhona started changing, and some people wanted that to be story based (heck, I'd like to go back and walk around the old one), was that Mor Dhona was a hub and splitting players across several hubs wasn't particularly good (though the Party Finder now perhaps renders that moot). What I'm suggesting would be more like the Vault in 3.1, except not quite a dungeon. You go in, see what the place is like, see how people are living there, then you leave. Story progresses, the place gets hit by whatever, you come back and can see what's changed. Now it's a persistent zone and potentially a hub.

The pre-disaster (be that Primal, Garlean, or whatever in design) version of the zone would not be something you persist in for an extended period of time. Perhaps Final Fantasy IX and Lindblum is a bad example there, since a fair portion of content occurs before Atomos noms the place. It would certainly be better to flesh out an area like that, before stripping it away, but yeah, not particularly practical in an MMO...

Alternatively, think along the lines of 2.55 and the Rising Stones, just bigger and with a more dramatic threat. We built up that place, it was essentially "home", then we lost access to it. Nothing really happened with it, since the Crystal Braves weren't the biggest threat in the world, but when we finally returned it was a mess, and now it's been cleaned up. I'd be incline to think A Realm Reborn did well there, when we return to the Waking Sands after Livia's assault, but I think my experience of that was ruined by the fact that it wasn't an instance at the time... Rather killed the mood when dozens of other players were standing around... Still, Livia got plenty of buildup, both there and scenes in Castrum Centri, if a Primal could get a fraction of that, I'd be happy. Sadly I doubt Sephirot will, since it's probably already too late... We've seen nothing of the Triad, we've just been told they're bad news...

Originally Posted by Fenral

This is why discarding the 3AE expo dump character(s) for cheep feelz was a stupid move. Two (plus one) people who may very well remember the threat the Triad posed and could have given us a chance to Echo into them for a firsthand look. I will never stop being disgusted at that waste of potential.

What little hope I have rests on the developers remembering that the Echo is a thing... It's still a fairly jarring way to show us a threat, but it works regardless. Imagine if Totally-Not-Elidibus triggered Echo cutscenes when he handed us the artifacts that helped us unlock Bismarck and Ravana Extreme? Would have added immensely to his character, and potentially given us some real insight into the Primals in question.

I almost want future Extremes to all be handled by the Wandering Minstrel... That at least adds a little flare to proceedings... Extremes have long just been generic quests given by a generic quest giver (no offense Urianger). They started out reasonably OK, with the whole sacrificial ritual coming up, but lord knows whatever happened to that plot point... They quickly just became "Oh, you're here for you loot? Lets get this over with...", when they could have given the Primals some much needed development. They could have fleshed out Leviathan, instead I just sit there going "Wait, after complaining at me for challenging you with trickery last time, you're falling for it again?", the Wandering Minstrel would fix that right up, and is a lovely excuse to give no extra lore. It's lazy writing, but Extremes seem to get that anyway, so I'd rather they at least just be honest about being lazy...

Originally Posted by Fenral

But no, Nalien, not sick of you going on about Final Fantasy IX, because that game did get summons right and it's 15 years old!

I think the only thing I can fault it on was giving us the summons. The Odin I watched in cutscenes was far superior to the Odin I got to use, partly why IX is definitely my favorite version of Alexander. Great buildup, amazing reveal, and then I don't get to disappoint myself by ever getting to summon it myself.

Granted, here I want to summon Primals, but that's mostly because the entire system sounds better than the Summoners of old, it's just stuck in development hell... All this game needs is Campaign and Free Company Summoning would be absolutely amazing. I can just imagine a server fighting a losing battle, about to lose a location to the Garleans (or whatever threat would warrant Campaign style content), only for a group to come in and throw Ifrit at them, completely turning the tide. It would have the same wow factor that Ramuh did in the XV demo, potentially more.

I think my ideal Sephirot quest would;

Completely drop Urianger/Not-Elidibus from the start. I'm bored of Urianger telling me that another Primal, stronger than the last, has shown up. Not-Elidibus is a total non-character that you could quite literally replace with a note on a table. There is nothing interesting either can say that someone else couldn't say better. A Node in Azys Lla would deliver the exposition in a more interesting manner than either at this point.
Instead, I'd have a Node in Azys Lla start the quest, in which we have to go stop some Garleans messing about with stuff they shouldn't be.
After we do that, Regula shows up, explains those Garleans were tempered, and that he'd like our help dealing with the Triad.
He would give us some exposition on Sephirot from the Allagan side of things, seeing as the Garleans likely have that kind of information. Plot twist; Sephirot is the same as Odin. A Tree, rather than a Sword, and the avatar we fight is not actually Sephirot.
We'd then enter with a small host of Garlean soldiers, armed to the teeth with Magitek; They promptly get annihilated to display Sephirots power, and we get our usual Trial. Justification being the containment system being "damaged", with Regula going of to fix it, meaning we fight just the avatar, not the roots/etc. as well.
The Trial then occurs like Ramuh, in that it starts with a dialog, and ends with a dialog, rather than just another mindless beast. Giving us his side of the story, and perhaps going into a bit more depth regarding their existence alongside Hydaelyns.
After we've dealt with "Sephirot", Regula walks in, commenting on our strength and clearly fascinated by the power of the Eikon, and reminding us that we should inform our allies before saying he'll be in touch about the other Triad later.
Then, because it would be something different, we go back to Not-Elidibus and Urianger, who are panicked about the possibility of the Triad breaking free, only for us to go "Yea, we dealt with that already". Only for Urianger to give an odd glance at Not-Elidibus, because Elidibus did comment on how "All of this is preordained, the Warring Triad, even the Garleans..."
Maybe fade to black and cut to the containment chamber, where Regula is now chewing on the roots like a dog, because we all know he wants to be Kefka.

Would be more interesting than;

Not-Elidibus>> Something Something Sephirot (if you chanted that, you get a cookie)
Urianger>> Something Something Strong Primal
Sephirot>> Rawr? I will defeat you!
Sephirot>> Rawr? I am defeated?
Not-Elidibus & Urianger>> exactly the same bloody dialog we get every time we beat a Primal.

I'm biased to totally-not-Elidibus for obvious reasons. Instead of dropping him, I would prefer to have him more heavily utilized in a meaningful way. I think the issue is that the Extreme Primals are side content. They aren't even side-story content, like Coil, CT, or Void Ark, they are just side content with a minimal story attached - last time it was Lahabrea and his underlings using you to weaken Hydaelyn. While theoretically interesting and potentially very dangerous, it didn't really go anywhere, because Hydaelyn was weakened already.

As side content, they can't really have an impacting story beyond an excuse to get you to fight a stronger version of the primals. I hate to be that person, but SE seems to want the MSQ available to all types of players, and the Extreme Primals are more midcore content.

Edit: I think the level 60 SMN questline did "side content" adding to the MSQ in the best way possible. They gave us a lot of information on Ascians in general, so it complimented the MSQ, rather than just being an add-on, unlike every other class questline in HW except DRK and maybe AST. If SE could do something that meaningful to the context of overall lore in the game, but not directly impacting the story, I would be satisfied.

That being said, the first part of the questline waved a bunch of red flags at me, so I might be giving it less credit than it deserves. We'll see if they go through with it.

Originally Posted by Nalien

I think my ideal Sephirot quest would;

Completely drop Urianger/Not-Elidibus from the start. I'm bored of Urianger telling me that another Primal, stronger than the last, has shown up. Not-Elidibus is a total non-character that you could quite literally replace with a note on a table. There is nothing interesting either can say that someone else couldn't say better. A Node in Azys Lla would deliver the exposition in a more interesting manner than either at this point.
Instead, I'd have a Node in Azys Lla start the quest, in which we have to go stop some Garleans messing about with stuff they shouldn't be.
After we do that, Regula shows up, explains those Garleans were tempered, and that he'd like our help dealing with the Triad.
He would give us some exposition on Sephirot from the Allagan side of things, seeing as the Garleans likely have that kind of information. Plot twist; Sephirot is the same as Odin. A Tree, rather than a Sword, and the avatar we fight is not actually Sephirot.
We'd then enter with a small host of Garlean soldiers, armed to the teeth with Magitek; They promptly get annihilated to display Sephirots power, and we get our usual Trial. Justification being the containment system being "damaged", with Regula going of to fix it, meaning we fight just the avatar, not the roots/etc. as well.
The Trial then occurs like Ramuh, in that it starts with a dialog, and ends with a dialog, rather than just another mindless beast. Giving us his side of the story, and perhaps going into a bit more depth regarding their existence alongside Hydaelyns.
After we've dealt with "Sephirot", Regula walks in, commenting on our strength and clearly fascinated by the power of the Eikon, and reminding us that we should inform our allies before saying he'll be in touch about the other Triad later.
Then, because it would be something different, we go back to Not-Elidibus and Urianger, who are panicked about the possibility of the Triad breaking free, only for us to go "Yea, we dealt with that already". Only for Urianger to give an odd glance at Not-Elidibus, because Elidibus did comment on how "All of this is preordained, the Warring Triad, even the Garleans..."
Maybe fade to black and cut to the containment chamber, where Regula is now chewing on the roots like a dog, because we all know he wants to be Kefka.

Would be more interesting than;

Not-Elidibus>> Something Something Sephirot (if you chanted that, you get a cookie)
Urianger>> Something Something Strong Primal
Sephirot>> Rawr? I will defeat you!
Sephirot>> Rawr? I am defeated?
Not-Elidibus & Urianger>> exactly the same bloody dialog we get every time we beat a Primal.

You... I'd want you in the dev team !!

(And I'd like a cookie as well please. That'll compensate the one-winged angel ringing in my mind)