Thread: 3.2 Sephiroth

Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Besides totally not working for Elidibus, Unukalhai's purpose really seems to be to give them some background and character.

It's a pity though that we can't discuss much.

Ravana has so much more depth than Bismarck for example. We actually know his motives and he challenges us just for the sake of having a challenge. Unlike Bismarck who is just *Deep Blue sound* then *graaaaah* then dead. K.

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Unlike Bismarck who is just *Deep Blue sound* then *graaaaah* then dead. K.

Forgive the belated reply, I actually had something longer typed up, but my computer froze and have been too annoyed to retype it completely.

This may just me reading too much into things, but I actually felt Bismarck was more about you. Consider what Lahabrea and Igeyorhm say - they state that you despise (those are Igeyorhm's exact words) the Primals, going out of your way to find and destroy them, which often leads to more chaos. Bismarck, a giant, white whale, and the WoL, who hunts them. Sound familiar? It should, because that's what Moby Dick is all about - a misguided man completely focused on destroying a whale, even if the whale is not entirely innocent, making his life revolve around that purpose of destruction (as Lahabrea claims you have) at the cost of all else. It is as Cid said, it might actually have been better to leave him alone for a time, since Thordan wouldn't have had access to the key in Azys Lla, either.

Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Moby Dick

To add, I think one interpretation of the book in question was that the eponymous white whale might be seen as an allegory of pure evil (or at least Ahab sees the while as the embodiment of evil), which might add to Bismarck's role as its analogue as Hydaelyns' untempered inhabitants (Notably Garlemald) tend to see the Primals as pure evil.

Originally Posted by Nalien

Given the gravitas around the Warring Triad, I really hope they're not just another rehash of "Haha! I'm a Primal and must be stopped!". They've all got history, they've all got motivations, would be nice to see that touched upon more... With Sephirot we've got what? His tribe is seemingly long gone. He'd be waking up angry at an enemy that has been dead for Eras. There's a lot they can do with that, I hope they don't just go for the same "All humans are bad!" that most Primals have already done to death...

There's no history or gravitas surrounding them in Eorzea (XIV). There is as VI's "contribution" to the story, and in their home game, but besides that the Warring Triad is just like Bahamut - primals from a bygone age who will probably go on a rampage and bring about a Calamity if left unchecked. In-universe, all we know is that they're called the Warring Triad. That's it. Out-of-universe we know the first of the three is named Sephirot, and from that we can infer the other two will be Zurvan and Sophia, but that tells us nothing of their character or motivations. Regardless, from what we understand sealing away primals just causes them to build up anger and hate they then take out on the world in its present state no matter who is to blame when they're let out of their can.

Granted, that's just running on Bahamut, and he was a kind of special case (kept conscious within Dalamud for five millennia while being forced to listen to his worshipers' pleas - understandably driven insane), but we don't yet know what the situation with the Triad is like yet. We see some foliage in Sephirot's arena, and there's organic gunk in the Triad Control chamber, but... nothin'. Now it would be really boring (or at least repetitive) to have them just replay Bahamut's wrath or just have them show up, fight us, and then disappear, but we don't know anything about the Triad in-universe yet, beyond that they were captured by the Allagans in 3AE and imprisoned on Azys Lla.

... we'll have to stop them anyway, because it's been drilled into our heads that "Primals are bad, mmkay?", but there is stuff they could do with them...

Originally Posted by Cilia

snip

I know, I'm simply hoping that there is more to them, seeing as they're pretty much a direct reference along the lines of Crystal Tower. Crystal Tower wasn't just a tower that showed up for a cheap Final Fantasy III reference, there was some substantial lore behind it. I would hope the Warring Triad are handled in a similar fashion, not just because they're a massive reference to Final Fantasy VI, but because I'm honestly sick of how Primals are handled. I would hope our interactions with them boarder on something similar to our interactions with Ramuh, although even Ramuh left something to be desired.

That said, I expect nothing. We'll get the typical "Rawr, I'm a Primal!" and perhaps some exposition from Unukalhai amounting to "trees loved this guy". Alexander was honestly the last straw, perhaps they'll eventually redeem him, but at this point I'm just sick of what little character Primals have being wasted or nonexistent. Perhaps they've just become too standard, perhaps Shiva and Thordan created an unwelcome shift (though given I'm still very much anticipating FC Primal summoning, they were quite welcome), but it's been a long time since I've felt like I'm fighting "Gods". Ravana, for as much as I like him, might as well just be a Gnath on steroids at this point. We never see the damage these creatures cause, we only ever get a hint in the main scenario (Ravana verses Shiva, for example).

I know people are probably sick of me going on about Final Fantasy IX, but that is a game that got "Primals" right. Huge let down when you finally get to summon them, but when you see Odin or Atomos for the first time? F*cking hell XIV needs something like that. Bahamut certainly got that treatment with the End of an Era, I just want to see something like that in game. End of an Era was a very long time ago now... Remind me why these things are a threat, instead of just going "Alexander will drain all the aether! Lets leave him alone for months!". Alexander very much fails the rule of "show, don't tell". We're told he is a thread, while all we see is a pathetic giant that can't even crawl out of a river... If the Warring Triad are handled the same... Like I said, I hope there is more to them. Show me that they're ancient gods, don't just show me another angry Primal that does nothing and expect me to give a sh*t when I'm told they were a serious threat.

"Humans are evil!"

"No we aren't!" /kill

/quest

There are a lot of things still keeping me in this game, but the philosophical debates are not one of them.

At the very least it would be nice to get more lore outside the game/encounter... Ifrit, Garuda, and Mog were all made far more interesting than they actually are by additional information provided. Ifrit less so, but the story with Garuda and the Lord of Snakes, coupled with Ixalis origin in Azys Lla, and the proximity of Vanu Vanu (who protected the Key to Azys Lla...) who ride snakes... That made the insane harpy more interesting to think about. Likewise, the Mog myth, discovery of Moghome and their relation to Thordan/Nidhogg, all make for a much more interesting story, even if their characterization is none existent/one note.

Originally Posted by myahele

I have a feeling Sephirot won't have much of a personality other than "kill kill kill!" especially since he's been locked up longer than Bahamut and a Warring triad member

See, that makes me think he should have more personality... He is one of the Warring Triad, a trio that has always just been a plot device, this would be the perfect chance to make them something more.

As for Bahamut, well... He was royally pissed off before the Allag played Space Pokemans with him... Not only was he killed by them, he was summoned back by his beloved who then viewed him as stain on his memory (even if he isn't Bahamut, like Ysayle/Shiva I'd imagine he'd have thought he was the real deal at first). Add to that him and his fighting a losing war, and Dalamud effectively being a torture chamber... Yeah... I don't want to meet the man... dragon... thoughtform... whatever, who is sane after that...

On the other hand, we don't really know what circumstance the Triad fell to Allag... Given their apparent power, one wonders how they were "captured" or why they were put to use on something so menial as creating synthetic crystals... I'd hope for something a bit more true to VI, where the Allag didn't contain the Triad, they found the Triad "sleeping" and set to work harnessing their power without waking them up. It would explain why something like Crystal Tower was required; The Triad might have limitless power, but only a fraction of it was tapped into... Tapping into more would risk waking them up (#ThanksThordan), and then who knows what happens... If they're as strong as they're hyped up to be, one would wonder how we even have a hope of besting them... I would like to think this will be similar to the Ramuh encounter...