Thread: The Current Status of FFXIV Patch 3.1 and How to Address it Moving Forward

Originally Posted by Velhart

I will ask people again, if you are trying to get the highest tier weapon in the game, but not even going to use it on challenging content it is meant for, why even do the relic to begin with?

Some people like to have powerful gear for its own sake and don't necessarily need the gear to open up the door to new content for them. You could, realistically, ask a similar question of hardcore raiders. After all, what's the point of clearing AS4 in the first month of release if you don't have any challenging content beyond that? Sometimes I raid and sometimes I don't, but completing a Relic/Zodiac/Anima weapon (or indeed, a set of 210 gear) is still inherently satisfying even if I don't intend to tackle difficult content with those items.

Other people find enjoyment in ways that you don't, and the game wisely tries to appeal to a number of different playstyles. The Zodiac/Anima questlines have always been a third option separate from challenging difficult content or amassing time-locked currencies (the 2.0 Relic is essentially irrelevant to the overall trend, as the developers have stated multiple times that they changed their goals for Relics starting with the Zodiac questline).

I honestly find it baffling that such a significant sample of the forum-going population is so myopic that they can't seem to understand that not everyone is the same as them and therefore, not everyone shares their priorities, hobbies, and entertainment values.

Originally Posted by Moomba33

As for getting high end weapons without bothering with high end content I'd say it's just that the appeal of RPGs for a lot of people is seeing their characters get stronger which in XIV means an ilevel increase. Not everyone plays videogames to challenge themselves.

That is irrelevant. You can't make decisions on content based off people not wanting challenging and interesting content in the game. Ohh wait never mind, SE does this currently. It is statements like this is why the content given to us is just getting worse over time. People don't want to take on trials in relics because it requires effort beyond hitting the one button in FATE's while watching something on Netflix? Okay.

Originally Posted by Alahra

Some people like to have powerful gear for its own sake and don't necessarily need the gear to open up the door to new content for them. You could, realistically, ask a similar question of hardcore raiders. After all, what's the point of clearing AS4 in the first month of release if you don't have any challenging content beyond that? Sometimes I raid and sometimes I don't, but completing a Relic/Zodiac/Anima weapon (or indeed, a set of 210 gear) is still inherently satisfying even if I don't intend to tackle difficult content with those items.

Its a reward for taking time to better yourself and work with your team to reach a very difficult hurdle. The ilvl210 weapon is a representation of that achievement and can be used to gain an advantage in the next raid. The relic's current structure only doing old, grindy content for an extended period of time and that is it. It isn't hard and there is no satisfaction beyond knowing you don't have to do this awful, tedious task anymore.

Other people find enjoyment in ways that you don't, and the game wisely tries to appeal to a number of different playstyles. The Zodiac/Anima questlines have always been a third option separate from challenging difficult content or amassing time-locked currencies (the 2.0 Relic is essentially irrelevant to the overall trend, as the developers have stated multiple times that they changed their goals for Relics starting with the Zodiac questline).

They changed their goals because the few people on the forums complained they had to put effort in beating Chimera/Hydra and the Primals. Is doing fun trial fights mixed with grinding elements seriously considered worse than things like only grinding FATE's/dungeons with god awful RNG? The most powerful weapons in the game should be gated by difficult content.

I honestly find it baffling that such a significant sample of the forum-going population is so myopic that they can't seem to understand that not everyone is the same as them and therefore, not everyone shares their priorities, hobbies, and entertainment values.

It is not about being the same, it is about proper structuring to your game. The best stuff should be gated behind difficult content. Content needs to be paced to work and influence you to take on greater challenges afterwards. If you are not willing to put the effort or take time to better yourself, then you don't deserve those items. If you want to play on a level where you don't want to pursue raiding or hard end game content, that is fine, just don't expect to be showered in gear that people struggled to get in raids.

Originally Posted by Velhart

It isn't hard and there is no satisfaction beyond knowing you don't have to do this awful, tedious task anymore.

There is no satisfaction for you. I find it immensely satisfying, and you seem to have entirely missed the point of my post, which is that not everyone thinks the same way that you do, which results in some things in the game catering to their interests instead of yours.

Originally Posted by Alahra

There is no satisfaction for you. I find it immensely satisfying, and you seem to have entirely missed the point of my post, which is that not everyone thinks the same way that you do, which results in some things in the game catering to their interests instead of yours.

So their interest is not having fun content? Also when I say challenging content, it is subjective. Chimera/Hydra were challenging, but they certainly were not raid level bosses. They were just hard enough that you needed to put in some effort to get it done. If proper grinding quests and things like that were mixed in, it adds variety and doesn't get sickening as easily.

Originally Posted by Velhart

So their interest is not having fun content?

Some people actually find content like Dungeons, FATEs, and Hunts fun even if they aren't challenging. For some players, the content is fun intrinsically, and for others, they can find fun from them extrinsically if there is suitable incentive to revisit the content. I'm in the former category for Dungeons and in the latter category for things like FATEs and Hunts. I enjoy the opportunity often presented through the weapon questlines to visit content I haven't seen in awhile, and while I naturally cannot speak for the population as a whole, there are more than likely other players that can find fun in the older content just as I do.

Fun is subjective. Just because you don't find it fun doesn't mean it is by necessity unfun to someone else.

Originally Posted by Alahra

Some people actually find content like Dungeons, FATEs, and Hunts fun even if they aren't challenging. For some players, the content is fun intrinsically, and for others, they can find fun from them extrinsically if there is suitable incentive to revisit the content. I'm in the former category for Dungeons and in the latter category for things like FATEs and Hunts. I enjoy the opportunity often presented through the weapon questlines to visit content I haven't seen in awhile, and while I naturally cannot speak for the population as a whole, there are more than likely other players that can find fun in the older content just as I do.

Fun is subjective. Just because you don't find it fun doesn't mean it is by necessity unfun to someone else.

You are actually missing the point. If people find this stuff fun, then good for them. It doesn't mean an ilvl210 weapon should pop into their hands for just doing that content alone.

Originally Posted by Velhart

You are actually missing the point. If people find this stuff fun, then good for them. It doesn't mean an ilvl210 weapon should pop into their hands for just doing that content alone.

That is your opinion, one that is not shared by the developers of this game or by some fraction of this game's population. All players want the ability to progress their character's power to new heights, and allowing the widest variety of players to do so maintains interest (and accordingly) subscription levels. Game's like WoW or FFXIV could not maintain the subscription levels that they did if only raiding players were allowed to get top level gear. Accessibility breeds interest and ultimately allows more players to enjoy the game than would otherwise.

The larger subscription levels become, the larger revenue becomes, and the more resources (theoretically, anyway) the team then has to create new content. The smaller subscription levels become, the smaller overall revenue becomes, and the less resources the team then has to create new content.

Games that do the things you're describing have historically lower subscription numbers than games that do what FFXIV does. You talk about the "proper" structure, but the only measure that we can use to decide whether the overall structure is "proper" or not is the overall appeal and success of the game in terms of revenue and subscriptions because Square Enix is ultimately a business. What you're proposing would at best most likely have a neutral effect on subscriptions in the long term, and would be seemingly more likely to result in a loss of subscriptions, since by all appearances, the portion of the playerbase that is ultimately not interested in particularly challenging content is larger than the portion that is interested in such content.

Originally Posted by Alahra

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It can not be determined by looking at charts and graphs alone. That is the problem. You can't accurately determine if what you built is successful unless you truly get down to a player level to get a good idea. SE bases their content on how many people they can cram in there without thinking much on how to make it fun. Alexander(Normal) comes out and they say its a success because everyone and their mother beat it and a lot went in there. Well of course people did, it was items needed to have a chance in getting something done in Savage. Its the same with relic. You can't determine if it is something the general base approves of, but has to anyways because its something people believe they need to get AS4 done. There is a difference between fun content and content you feel obligated to do. That is why things like charts and graphs don't work.

Do the mass majority actually like how the relic quest works? Color me surprised if people say yes. Is it a fact that a lot of people do it? Yes. People will do content that is imbalanced, poorly made, and not fun if there is still a reward at the end. I can't pull numbers out of no where, but I am more than willing to bet that the majority of players do not completely approve on how the quest works.

In your statement about WoW, most of what I said is based on their ideals on how an MMO should be built. Last I recall they do pretty well for themselves, even in their tougher times.