Next Relic: make use of Extreme trails

[SchalaZeal]

Time investment is not even in the general area of casual or even midcore players. Reasonably playing, its content for at least 3 hours daily of high end content most casual players are not interested/able or have the time to do.

In fact, casual players are for the most part, still doing 2.X relics, so in all honestly, 3.X relics are defenitly not for them.

Some people define casual by time investment, others by "do they raid or not" and others again by whatever other criteria you could have. Decide already. But don't equate them all "it takes a while, therefore the only one who have time are raiders anyway", cause that's crap reasoning.

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

Some people define casual by time investment, others by "do they raid or not" and others again by whatever other criteria you could have. Decide already. But don't equate them all "it takes a while, therefore the only one who have time are raiders anyway", cause that's crap reasoning.

Casual vs Hardcore has been always about time investment, if someone here has turned that into something else, thats not my problem. Thats for starters, why trading skill for time to access certain content is a bad idea to begin with.

And it doesn`t take "a while". Probably no casual players, of those in the realm of 2 to 3 daily hours of gameplay, will be able to complete this during its "patch time". So the content wasn`t developed for them of course. The only players going through good stable ratios of progress and those who are going to finish this within the first month and a half to have some "use" for the Relic are mostly hardcore players. The midcore players will finish it anywhere between the last weeks of its "time" and past it. Casuals... Casual players are again, still doing 2.X relic. So this content isn`t for them exactly.

If relic is supposed to be for casuals, it needs to be obtainable through skill challenged of reduced difficulty. For example, the very first stage of 2.X relic, thats the only moment in this game history where the Relic made any sense for the casual crowd, and after that it steadily moved away from them.

[SchalaZeal]

I play 12-15 hours a day, and I don't raid. Cause I don't have a static. My FC won't raid, too casual (in both meanings). Not gonna join one just for that either.

thats the only moment in this game history where the Relic made any sense for the casual crowd, and after that it steadily moved away from them.

Atma was completed pretty fast. Zeta too. Even for casuals. Zodiac Braves depends on if you like DFing or play with premade groups. Animus was long due to the cost of books and waiting on FATEs.

Yet NONE of them were hardcore, even if you only count it as a time measure. They all were doable in a patch cycle.

[Lambdafish]

@Alexander_dragonfang

I'm so glad someone said it, you are exactly right. Relic isn't for casuals, it never has been, its for the old XI players who are used to and enjoy old school mega grinds. These aren't casual players, and more often than not, they are the hardcore players who not only raid, but work hard to socialise and develop time efficient methods to make the most out of this game, which doesn't sound casual to me.

Ultimately the relic is designed to be "accessible" to everyone, but it is most definately not FOR the casuals, its for the hardcore grind loving XI players that asked for it in the first place. (next we will be saying that XI relics were for casuals )

[Arashmin]

XI relics weren't for casuals, but they had lasting value. There's a huge difference in doing a grind once and doing that same grind, from what YoshiP seems to intend, to be a yearly one.

[Kosmos992k]

XI relics weren't for casuals, but they had lasting value. There's a huge difference in doing a grind once and doing that same grind, from what YoshiP seems to intend, to be a yearly one.

Yes, but this isn't FFXIV, it's a painfully vertical progression game, so the relic here is not a lasting thing except for players behind the curve or as glamour. Some say the relics in FFXIV are for the XI players, except they can't ever be what relics were in XI. In FFXIV relics are catch up weapons for players who have the time and/or mind set to handle a grind, they are not meant to keep pace with raiding weapons. Gating relic upgrades behind more difficult content disenfranchises a great many players. That's just plain bad business.

[Lambdafish]

XI relics weren't for casuals, but they had lasting value. There's a huge difference in doing a grind once and doing that same grind, from what YoshiP seems to intend, to be a yearly one.

I never said that the quests were designed well, and I don't believe I mentioned the XI weapons themselves (other than the offhand joke). The grind IS supposed to mimic the effort that the XI relic took (though toned down to meet the standard of this game), but the weapons themselves are disappointments considering that fact.

So yeah, the relics are designed in their current state because XI players asked for grindy content, and for some reason, the notion that its for casuals has cropped up and makes no sense, when from the outset, the task looks pretty hardcore.

Which step 2 does a fine job of.

I have a love hate relationship with step 2. I think its a great step for having me personally visit old content and have a change of pace, but it fails in the fact that you only need to do the dungeon once, and it can be done unsynced. What this means is that very few people are still in PF and everyone is doing it premade and unsynced, which while fun, does defeat the point.

[Kosmos992k]

So yeah, the relics are designed in their current state because XI players asked for grindy content, and for some reason, the notion that its for casuals has cropped up and makes no sense, when from the outset, the task looks pretty hardcore.

I'm sorry, I think you're wrong about that. I don't have the quote to hand, but Yoshi-P specifically described the relic upgrade as an alternate path to progress to better weapons for players who did not partake of the raid and extreme content. I think this is something he's discussed multiple times in that context. I don't remember him mentioning anything about it being there for former XI players demanding grindy content, that may be a conclusion of your own.

[raymon]

snip

correct me of i am wrong, but does "Time investment" = Doing EXPrimals/coil?