Tank Anima Weapons Builds.

[Februs]

Looking at the new Anima weapons, there are questions I want to ask of the Tanking community concerning the utility of the Anima weapons over:

• 1. traditional Eso purchases
  
  
• 2.Thordan Ex drops,
  
  or (for the eventual time when someone out there actually completes the grind for the Anima 210 weapon)
  
  
• 3. Gordian/Savage Weapons.

The questions for us to consider are:

• 1. Are the stats on your Anima (at the moment, this will be lvl 200 for most of us) worth it compared to the Eso purchased weapon?
  
  By this, I do not mean "is it worth the grind?" There are plenty of other threads over in the "Quest" Forums asking this question, and you can head over there if you want to pitch in. What I mean is: Is it worth actually using over your Eso weapon?
  
  For me, unless I'm missing something, the answer for Pld's would be "no." The stat breakdown of the Awoken weapon is actually worse than the Antiquated weapon. Awoken boosts Crit and Skill Speed (cuz' Pld's weren't burning their Tp fast enough, apparently) over Det and Parry. That means emphasizing burst dmg and speed over defense and overall attack strength... Given that Pld's are experts at steady Dps with zero burst capabilities, this seems to be a rather odd allocation... Even at the 210 lvl, the 205 Thordan Ex weapon/Shield seem to be the better choice for stat allocation.
  
  
• 2. What builds, if any, would be specifically tailored for, or advantageous to, the Anima weapons?
  
  This is more of an end-game, raider/progression player question, and I don't expect too many answers for it (because I don't expect there are many answers for it). The idea, though, is if the new Anima weapons have prompted any players who have adopted them to reconsider their current Stats and Accessories.
  
  For example, if I were actually using the Anima weapon on Pld, I might consider swapping out as much Skill Speed and Crit for as much Str, Det, and Acc as possible to try and counter the Tp consumption and get as much bang for my buck out of those Crits that I possibly can.
  
  
• 3. Lastly (and this one is a bit out there), given that the Anima weapons are the first implementation of an ongoing Quest that will likely continue for the entire expansion, are there any hints in the stat allocations of the weapons that might shed some light on the supposed changes SE is going to eventually bring to Tank Dmg scaling?
  
  This is a theory question and would be pure speculation for anyone who might try to take a stab at answering it. Further, given that the original Zodiac relics eventually moved out of pre-established secondary stats into custom stats, it's entirely possible that SE will follow the same path here. Meaning that the original stats might mean absolutely nothing, because they knew we'd all change them eventually. Regardless, it might make for some interesting discussions, so I figured I'd throw it in.

All 3 tanking weapons are on the table here (I only specified Pld because it's my main). What are your experiences with the Anima stats so far? Are they useful to you? Can you see them being useful to you in the future? Or is it just a fancy glamour/novelty item?

[Donjo]

I wouldn't say that the stats are what they are right now through some sort of cosmic purpose. The fact of the matter is that there were very few spreads to put on this relic in the first place. Take a look:

PLD Has

Gordian - Crit/Det
Eso - Det/Parry

DRK Has

Gordian - Det/Parry
Eso - Crit/SS

WAR Has

Gordian - Det/SS
Eso - Crit/Parry

Pre Relic available weapons for every tank are one weapon with Parry and one without. Judging from the relics, it looks like they prefer to leave just one weapon having Parry. The Relics have the stats they have simply because SE didn't want to implement two weapons with the exact same stats. PLD could only be Crit/SS or Det/SS. DRK could only be Crit/Det or Det/SS. WAR could only be Crit/Det or Crit/SS. So they gave each of them what would be best for damage from those. Paladins win out with Crit because they attack often enough for rates to normalize quickly. Warriors and Dark Knights get Crit/Det because that's still just the best. All of the DPS who were shafted by relic choices got whacked because there was only a single choice of stat spread on the relic: whichever one the Gordian or Eso weapon didn't have.

[Februs]

Take a look ... Pre Relic available weapons for every tank are one weapon with Parry and one without. Judging from the relics, it looks like they prefer to leave just one weapon having Parry. The Relics have the stats they have simply because SE didn't want to implement two weapons with the exact same stats.

You missed the Thordan Weapons!

Seriously though, the Sword of the Heavens also has a Crit/Det mix (albeit at a slightly lower value), so SE is already operating with duplicate stats across different end game weapons. There is a 5 item level difference, but it's not really a huge difference all things considered. Further, that Det/Crit mix does, in my opinion, put the ilvl 205 Sword of the Heavens above the ilvl 210 Relic. It's nice that the auto-attacks advantage Pld Dps when it comes to Crit. I don't really think it is the "best" dps option for Pld. Frequency in auto attacks is nice, but the drop in attack power nerfs the baseline. Also, I don't think putting faith in RNGsus for Dps (especially on the job that already lags behind it's peers) is not ideal if you compare it to a consistent increase in output. Plus, with the increase in SS, a Pld is likely to run dry faster, nerfing their Dps straight down to 0 when they have nothing left (which, admittedly, is only really a problem in fights like A4, where you have almost 100% uptime as MT) Given the alternative, it just seems like a strange choice to me.

As you said, they could have just as easily gone DET/SS (if they absolutely had to stick with SS) for a more consistent Dps output. The reason I find it an odd choice is because this seems to be what Pld's are designed for. They lack of any notable burst skills like Fell Cleave/IB or Carve and Spit/Reprisal... That is, unless they plan on buffing Spirits within sometime in the near future, but I hardly expect anything like this in the future considering they crippled Shield Swipe when they took it off the GCD (it would seem that SE does not want Pld Dps anywhere but down, which is fine... if they would just address that enmity issue...). That being said, I suppose it does vary depending on how the stats scale. If Crit has a higher scaling than Det, than it might make a notable difference. I'm willing to give it a test run or two, but given the overall dip in Pld stats when actually equipping the weapon I'm not expecting it to be all that different (if not outright worse) than the Antiquated weapon.

[Donjo]

You missed the Thordan Weapons!

It is true that I did not regard the Thordan Weapons, but that is because I was strictly speaking of Item Level 210 weapons. If we narrow things down to that then you will find that no job has duplicate stat spreads.

That aside, Crit does in fact weigh higher than Det for Paladins. When it comes to the Sword, highest to lowest damage order is Gordian(Crit/Det) -> Relic(Crit/SS) -> Esoteric(Det/Parry).

[MaethusXion]

snip

Just for completions sake, because PLD has to have a shield...

Gordian Blade - Crit/Det
Gordian Shield - Parry/SS

Hauteclaire(Eso) - Parry/Det
Prytwen(Eso) - Crit/SS

Almace(Relic3.0) - Crit/SS
Ancile(Relic3.0) - Parry/Det

Just looking at those, I've made the guess that, at i210:
Gordian Blade >= Almace > Hauteclaire
Prytwen > Ancile >= Gordian Shield

Obviously SS v Det can be tossed either way, but what I lurk and read on the forums pretty much the view would be the above.

[Donjo]

If we want to go for maximum completion(tm) on the Shields, we should also include their type. Ancile and Prytwen are Kite Shields while Gordian is a Tower Shield. Given that a Paladin not only relies more on Blocks in 3.X but has an increased ability to perform them, a Tower Shield is measurably more useful for reducing big hits than a Kite Shield at the moment. This can lead players to prefer the Gordian Shield even if it has undesirable secondaries.

[SpookyGhost]

I think PLD's shields are really the only pieces that have any wiggle room - for example, if you have the axe from A4S you shouldn't go out of your way for the Anima when the gains are very minimal. However, with the shield you can go for more balanced blocking (better for, say, A2S or dungeons) or a tower shield (better for fights with physical tank busters that can be Sheltron'd or small physical bursts phases in the case of Bulwark).

[Februs]

If we want to go for maximum completion(tm) on the Shields, we should also include their type.

with the shield you can go for more balanced blocking (better for, say, A2S or dungeons) or a tower shield (better for fights with physical tank busters that can be Sheltron'd or small physical bursts phases in the case of Bulwark).

I agree with Spooky here. The BiS (so to speak) might change depending on the situation for Pld's. Tanking a Raid or Trial that requires planned mitigation would seem to make the most out of a higher block strength using Shelltron, but in dungeons a higher frequency of blocks rather than overall block strength might be more advantageous, since the number of incoming hits multiplies with each additional mob being tanked. It's an interesting dynamic that only Pld's seem to have to deal with.

When it comes to the sword, however, there seems to be only one clear choice, which is a shame considering Pld's traditionally did have 2 different sword types available to them (curved or straight). Unlike the shield types, though, the differences between the two types of swords does not seem to make as dramatic a difference. Also, SE seems to have been phasing out curved swords of late. The last 3 (4 if you count the antiquated version) Pld Swords have all been straight. The last curved blade we've seen is the Law weapon.

I'm also still a little apprehensive about the value of Crit over Det for Pld. I've never been a fan of RnG based stats, so I am admittedly biased, but does anyone know how the dmg numbers actually work out for the two stats? I'd be curious to see an actual breakdown.

[Brannigan]

I think PLD's shields are really the only pieces that have any wiggle room - for example, if you have the axe from A4S you shouldn't go out of your way for the Anima when the gains are very minimal. However, with the shield you can go for more balanced blocking (better for, say, A2S or dungeons) or a tower shield (better for fights with physical tank busters that can be Sheltron'd or small physical bursts phases in the case of Bulwark).

Unfortunately they made the anima shield yet another kite so if you can already get a Prytwen or Gordian you still have no reason to go for it. Had they made it a buckler things might be different.

It's really a shame SE didn't do anything unique with these weapons. Even just putting Accuracy on them could make them a good pickup.

[Whiston]

SE changed all the weapons in 3.0 to omit the accuracy stat. They did this to ensure an upgraded weapon can always be used since you aren't hindered by accuracy issues. This also gives weapons a much more even weight, and is probably the best change they've made to stat balance in 3.0