Rant on healers acting as a dps role

[Ghishlain]

I dps in cleric when i dont have to heal n our party can survive. But what i dont understand is how a healer can continue to dps when their party is under half hp. And still think they're a good healer.

Again, talk with your healing partner. You're generally not challenging the hardest tiers of Savage Alexander without being in a static, or at least knowing in some capacity the people you're with. If they refuse to change, either you change groups or you kick them out as a healer.

What you're asking for in this thread isn't "off healing" and "main healing" dynamic, what you're pining for is an answer to a terrible healer who thinks s/he is the best.

[Elleia]

I dps in cleric when i dont have to heal n our party can survive. But what i dont understand is how a healer can continue to dps when their party is under half hp. And still think they're a good healer.

This sounds like you're referring to a df situation, or even a pf where the healers don't communicate what they're comfortable doing and divide responsibilities accordingly.

Communication is key, first and foremost. I main WHM and in my static, I am capable of handling a good chunk of the healing myself, allowing our SCH to dps more. It comes from running with one another often enough to know what the other is capable of, as well as understanding the fight well enough to know when damage is coming out. In AS1 for example, there isn't a ton of outgoing AOE damage. The party doesn't have to be topped off at all times. If an AOE goes out and leaves everyone at or below half health, I know there is enough time before the next AOE where I can just cast medica 2 and let the HoTs heal the party up while focusing on my tanks. In this situation, my SCH knows me and the fight well enough to not panic and stop dpsing. If he started dropping heals where they aren't needed, we'd both end up overhealing a ton.

But that's a preformed group with access to voice communication in case I do need to ask him for help. In a DF or PF situation, if one healer is struggling to keep the party alive while the other healer doesn't bother to help, then that is something that needs to be discussed. In terms of bringing another dps instead of a healer, well, you'd need a preformed party for that anyway. Plenty of healers in duty finder, myself included, will try to dps as much as possible in easier content to make it go faster. If not enough healing is being done, they should be able to recognize this and help out. If not, and the group wipes, that's a good time to say "Hey, I don't feel comfortable solo healing this. Can you help me out a little?".

[FoxyAreku]

If you're a white mage or a Diurnal AST, you should be able to solo heal most phases in fights. Any phase that you need extra help, the scholar should lend assistance, however Scholar AoE heals are mediocre without cooldowns, so they're only really used to DPS and to keep tanks shielded unless an emergency arises.

[technole]

If you're a white mage or a Diurnal AST, you should be able to solo heal most phases in fights. Any phase that you need extra help, the scholar should lend assistance, however Scholar AoE heals are mediocre without cooldowns, so they're only really used to DPS and to keep tanks shielded unless an emergency arises.

Yep, that is pretty much the reason why it hasn't shifted. Some people think "Oh Scholar has HW skills that has access to non-shield AoEs, so they can do the role just fine". But they require using resources: Long cooldowns and Aetherflow. Which are better spent on shields and DPS.

This isn't always black and white, as you can argue having Scholar taking damage down in A3S and solo healing for hands since it's mainly tank damage, and having White Mage burst DPS the hand(s).

[Judge_Xero]

If you're a white mage or a Diurnal AST, you should be able to solo heal most phases in fights. Any phase that you need extra help, the scholar should lend assistance, however Scholar AoE heals are mediocre without cooldowns, so they're only really used to DPS and to keep tanks shielded unless an emergency arises.

But those CD's are so good, why not use them? Like Thordon during the knights (bad example I know since it's not really a hard part for any healer), the Main Healer can DPS so much more if SCH uses Aldo/Deployement prior to Divebombs and then Indom for Holy. (Trading 1 Aetherflow and 1 GCD so Main heal can keep up stronger ST damage)

I guess that does take some level of communication and it'd be easier if Main Heals just took over everything.

[technole]

But those CD's are so good, why not use them? Like Thordon during the knights (bad example I know since it's not really a hard part for any healer), the Main Healer can DPS so much more if SCH uses Aldo/Deployement prior to Divebombs and then Indom for Holy. (Trading 1 Aetherflow and 1 GCD so Main heal can keep up stronger ST damage)

I guess that does take some level of communication and it'd be easier if Main Heals just took over everything.

I usually swift a shadowflare on one of the knights when they come out, DoT up as much as you can before they take an oath. As it snapshots the full damage regardless.

Deployment Tactics is usually saved for Ultimate End, depending on party DPS that cooldown might not always be back up for it. A succor is good enough for holy until then. Indom is better used for the tether/ice knockback to meteors.

[Gameplayzero]

"We're lacking in DPS, so instead of making our DPS do better, we're going to make our Healers & Tanks jobs more stressful"

For bad groups you mean.

If we are ignoring world first clears and everyone being properly geared, then yes. If everyone wants to clear the content as fast as possible then sometimes even dps at their A game isn't enough and everyone has to participate (teams have to agree to this however). You posted this recently so I assume you obviously aren't part of that group.

Now that everyone should be properly geared then your statement would be correct. DPS (for the most part) should be able to do their role with little aid as you've mentioned. BUT its not going to hurt if there is enough down time and little risk for tank/healer dps. Its a team effort. If there is a way to make the fighter easier and if everyone IS CAPABLE then they should take the chance. Not at the cost of everyone dying however.

[Alistaire]

Because for some reason the mindset in endgame here is, "We're lacking in DPS, so instead of making our DPS do better, we're going to make our Healers & Tanks jobs more stressful by making them dish out X amount of damage as well to make up for our low DPS..." Even though SE tests these fights & pretty sure their Healers & Tanks aren't DPSing hardcore lol.

I don't understand it either, which is why I am glad I raid with friends & not random people from the game lol

Except that they specifically stated they do. So you were either ignorant of that or misunderstood what they were saying? idk. Completely wrong either way.

In the end, it's basically "Welcome to FFXIV; the game where everyone contributes to dps.

[Fevelle]

Except that they specifically stated they do. So you were either ignorant of that or misunderstood what they were saying? idk. Completely wrong either way.

In the end, it's basically "Welcome to FFXIV; the game where everyone contributes to dps.

They specifically stated that fights ARE NOT tuned with healer DPS in mind. Deal with it yourself.
They even removed Accuracy from healer gear, so yeah, the same statement goes on after the expansion.

[Ghishlain]

A healer who refuses to heal in general (regardless of circumstances) when require is just a bad and/or ignorant healer. That's more of "this player is terrible" versus why we have "main" and "off" healing dynamic.

There will always be bad players. It's just much easier to notice terrible healers because... people die.