From the eyes of a former F2P-only player. An alternate(?) take on the situation.

[YukikoViviage]

WARNING: Wall of text ahead. Also, people who approve of 3.15 can leave now. You're not gonna like what's in here. TL;dr at the bottom

Final Fantasy XIV: ARR is the very first P2P MMO that I've committed to for a considerable amount of time. Come the first week of January 2016, I'd have been an FFXIV player for exactly 1 year. The only other P2P MMO that I've ever touched was Ragnarok Online, and that was a really long time ago. I quit because the game went P2P(Played during Beta), unwilling to fork out the funds required.


Before I started my journey in FFXIV though, I played another MMO by the name of Granado Espada for a good 3 years long after it went F2P. Now that, that was a grindy game before their Lucifer's Castle(v8.1 I think) update. Your progression was gated in 1 of 2 ways:

1) Cash Shop. Buy popular stuff using IRL money, sell on the market. Quick profit.
2) RNG prayers for better equipment. Equipment progression in that game was completely RNG, not to mention a huge money/time sink(Either in-game or IRL, take your pick). What you would do was that you'd buy "Enchantment Chips" to give stats to weapons and armor. You could end up with a sword that did between +20% - +100% Damage to Humans or any of the 5 other "Monster Races" in there. Or you could end up with a completely blank weapon. No damage boost, no aspd boost, nothing.

As someone who did not touch their cash shop at all in the 3 years I've played, earning money in that game was one of the most difficult things I've ever done to date in an MMO. Your primary source of income would be to sell whatever you found lying on the floor after you killed a monster. If RNG smiles on you, you could get a somewhat rare drop and make a small profit. Rare items in the game was sold at a premium, due to how low the drop rate was. "Punisher Stance Book" cost 6billion at launch, which is roughly $300 USD if you purely rely on the cash shop for income when I counted it a couple of years ago. Top dollar for top DPS I guess.

Content delivery was somewhat moderate. A major patch can be seen once every 4-6 months, usually adding new zones, new storyline content, some side quests, new recruitable characters along with a major raid.

That's where my gripe begins though. I hopped over to FFXIV with a few friends to escape all of the F2P models which I simply could not support. This game had me hooked at launch. I blazed through content because I was loving the game so much. Almost addicted one can say. I was subbed from January to late-May, after finishing 2.55 that's when I decided to take a break. Returned to Heavensward in July and remained subbed on and off(Sub expired on 3rd December, had just missed their free login). It wasn't until yesterday I had just decided to resub to welcome 3.15. In case you're wondering, yes, by September or so the game was growing to become a chore for me. Daily expert roulettes just to cap my Eso. Repeated Void Ark runs to get my drop.

Relic weapon wise, I did Base - Nexus in 2.55, then finished my Nexus - Zeta post 3.0 but before the further 3.1 nerfs. I got it done in 4 days(Tank queues, thank god) and told myself that the Zeta line was the grindiest piece of crap I've ever done. Granted, it's 2 years worth of content crammed, but still, doing the Alexandrite/Book steps is the worst thing I've ever done. If I did my relic on a DPS, I'm sure I would have added Light farming to that list as well.

So that brings us to patch 3.15. I'm not satisfied with the 3.15 patch. It really pains me to know that I bought a game and its expansion, paid a sub for months, only to be greeted with the highest level of recycled and lazy rehashed content I've ever seen. I can excuse this if I were playing a F2P game, but this is NOT something I expect from a P2P game. I'd be even more livid if I touched their cash shop.

I gave a pass to your stupid hunt system that you introduced in 2.xx(Recycled to a lesser degree in 3.0-3.1) despite not doing it, that only meant it took me an astronomical amount of time to complete my Alexandrite. My choice, no complaints. Although as a paying customer, I do feel that hunts need to go. Fine with grinding, not fine with hunt camping, not fine with feeling like shit when you go into a dungeon only for an S rank to pop.

I gave a pass to your RNG drops in Atmas and Zodiac dungeon drops(Tam Tara hard still took me over 60 times post 3.0 nerf) during the original Relic weapon line, mainly because I did it after repeated nerfs. But since I did it post nerf, I'm only liable to give my opinion about it at the time of my doing. The RNG sucks, and I'm sure people would appreciate a token system for these sorts of things.

I gave a pass to your dull 3.0 -3.15 content simply because everything not Alex Savage was getting cleared in a single DAY, with optimization of said content taking THREE DAYS AT MAX, which turns it into a snoozefest when you've done it enough. No complaints about Alex Savage, but you don't realistically expect people to make that last for 5(?) months and counting do you? People who do it will get sick of doing it. People who don't do it will get sick of seeing it. People who tried it will get sick of being told to complete it. This post wouldn't exist if you simply introduced the rubbish you introduced in 3.1 - 3.15 way back at 3.0's launch. I still wouldn't have done the relic, but at the very least I'd stay subbed because I wouldn't have become burned out so quickly. Tired of leveling and gearing my alts? I MIGHT have tried the Anima step 3, since a lot of us were actively doing roulettes and Alex NM at the time.
We'll never know because that never panned out. Also, you wouldn't have left a bad taste in my mouth. The kind of taste that got me to cancel my card subscription a day after resubbing.



But when I'm greeted with recycled content as big as this, that's where I really draw the line. It's something I've experienced to death with. Beast Tribe quests are reskinned side quests you can find at the beginning of the game. I've got 9 alt jobs at 60 with i190 minimum, Alex normal and roulettes have been done to death. And I've only been a player for almost a year. What about players who have been with the game since 2013? Also as we all know, the relic weapons only got grindier as the steps progressed with the final Zeta step being toned down. If this level of grindiness is present at the first stage of the weapon, what of the subsequent stages? How hard are you gonna rehash content during then? God forbid you direct players to gather 10000 Light. Are you telling me that the sub I paid for is only worth copy+paste content, along with a 20 minute text-only sidequest? I can get more content out of Nekopara Vol.0 for a lower price.

In conclusion, 3.15 and the expansion as a whole has been heart breaking for me. I remember roasting myself over not playing FFXIV sooner as I missed the Lightning event multiple times and I really wanted the stuff. So I was determined to put dedication into the game ever since I started. But if my dedication is rewarded with an overly bare bones rehash of content, then even a child will know what I'm gonna do next.

Also before anyone asks, personal housing is what made me resub, not the anima weapons. The anima weapons were something I had planned to kill time with while I eagerly awaited inactive people to get evicted. As it stands though, I'm not touching the third step with a 10 ft pole.

TL;DR -- Defenders of the Patch can get out, this post isn't for you, nor do I value any sort of valuable(?) input you might have. Heartbroken that Heavensward is a flop content wise. Game shows no signs of improvement so long as people defending patches like these exist. I'm not happy knowing that the money I spent goes into recycled content. I jumped from F2P games to P2P to escape all the grindy RNG rubbish, but it's present, if not heavier, in here compared to all the other games I've ever played(Only thing I escaped were P2Win tendencies). I actually wanna tell my friends with a proud tone in my voice that I'm a FFXIV player. I don't want them to think me a fool when after an hour's worth of research, find out I'm paying for recycled rubbish.

[Azazua_azura]

No offence why do ppl keep saying recycled content.... its an mmo..... what do u expect??? There should never be irrelevant content but simply a build up only players coined the irrelevant content bs.

[Ashelia_Ferron]

Just because you made a thread doesn't mean you can choose who posts in it (referencing your comment on how "patch defenders" can get out)

This is an open forum. Posting here means you're open to discussion, from ALL viewpoints. If you just want people who agree with you to post, you're in the wrong place.

Moreover, the majority of your post is completely opinionated.

Finally, there's no need to make more threads about the same complaints. And if you're unhappy with the game, stay unsubscribed and speak with your wallet, don't rant on a community forum

[Ryel]

Finally, there's no need to make more threads about the same complaints. And if you're unhappy with the game, stay unsubscribed and speak with your wallet, don't rant on a community forum

If you read the post they did both, and as SE has no feedback question when players unsub and instead direct players to post feedback on the forums this is exactly what they did.

[Eidolon]

No offence why do ppl keep saying recycled content.... its an mmo..... what do u expect??? There should never be irrelevant content but simply a build up only players coined the irrelevant content bs.

It's alright to have content that you need to do multiple times for rewards. That's cool.

But the issue comes when they dont' release c ontent, and instead slap a "Oh now go back and do this <again>" instead of actually creating content.

Recycled content refers to this. In an MMO, a grind is expected. But we expect things to be new. Vanu quests are an example of repeatable content that's new - it's quests added to an area, rather than saying "Well we'll just make it so the NPC's in the area re-issue all their old quests."

[Nominous]

No offence why do ppl keep saying recycled content.... its an mmo..... what do u expect??? There should never be irrelevant content but simply a build up only players coined the irrelevant content bs.

MMO's have existed that have done more than recycle content. Strange, I know.

Also, this game goes a step further than recycled content. Literally for 2+ years the game has had such little creativity that people can predict the content in every patch for months to come. People already know what's in 3.2, 3.25, 3.3, all the way up to 3.4. We know 3.2 is another item level increase, 4 raid bosses, tomes, 2 dungeons, and story. We know 3.3, and how it'll have Void Ark and Diadem, maybe some QoL changes.

Even other MMO's that are lazy have more interesting patch cycles, involving occasionally surprising people with a new class, or new areas.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You actually had a fairly well thought out and articulate post-- one I could at least appreciate, if I do not entirely share your overall opinion. Alas, you then had to conclude with:

TL;DR -- Defenders of the Patch can get out, this post isn't for you, nor do I value any sort of valuable(?) input you might have. Heartbroken that Heavensward is a flop content wise.

Which turns your entire thread into yet another "I don't like it, and fuck you if you don't agree with me." Shame.

[Jaibamon]

No offence why do ppl keep saying recycled content.... its an mmo..... what do u expect??? There should never be irrelevant content but simply a build up only players coined the irrelevant content bs.

Well... "Recycled content" is a short term for "boring or lame recycled content". Hey, not only MMOs... Practically every game must rely on recycling content to make it last longer, from reusing enemy models to reusing gameplay features. Yes, we expect recycled content, but we also expect the developer team learn from their mistakes, so they don't recycle content that isn't fun.

So OK, "fun" is a very vague term, and I am pretty sure there must be people enjoying this new relic questline. At the end, this is my opinion, just like yours. But, as you see in the forums, there is a lot of people who share the same opinion: that this new Relic requeriments are not only absurd, but mostly boring, tedius, and for the most of us, impossible to get on time for the next expansion (because the gathering/crafting requeriments and costs). They are not trolling or destroying the community, they just want the game they love and play to be better, and the feedback of any customer should be valuable.

There are better ways to do (recycled) content. We shouldn't get a relic for free, of course, but the way it is now...

[Cold_Raven]

Defenders of the Patch can get out, this post isn't for you

I'm not defending the patch. I'm just disagreeing with your bad case of excessive extremism.

Wow. Negative comment threads really discredit themselves when they over-exaggerate everything. You come off as someone who just hates everything and can never be pleased. That doesn't give anyone incentive to even try to please you.

Try again.

Heartbroken that Heavensward is a flop content wise.

I like the content. Missed relic the first time 'cause it had too much RNG and I was too far behind.
This time, it's excellent for me! I can stay with current content and RNG is much-reduced (post-nerf levels, not pre-nerf Atma).

Game shows no signs of improvement so long as people defending patches like these exist.

Not true. They showed they learned from the previous relic - can use any class at any level with any gear to obtain crystals, and RNG has been improved.

I jumped from F2P games to P2P to escape all the grindy RNG rubbish, but it's present, if not heavier, in here compared to all the other games I've ever played.

I don't think you've played many games if you think the RNG in FF14 is "high." Diablo called, it wants you to buy from the auction house.

I actually wanna tell my friends with a proud tone in my voice that I'm a FFXIV player. I don't want them to think me a fool when after an hour's worth of research, find out I'm paying for recycled rubbish.

Bwahhahahahhaaa!! That's funny

As a community, we should focus on important things that need and should be improved... like access to housing for everyone! Or getting an optional in-game parser that only shows your name (values from other people are included, though)!

[Zorlinta]

Yup updates sux, and it does and will ever does discontinue old content, so if you not play constantly allways your hard work will be outdated, it happens in P2P and in F2P. The trouble is that you are not yet accustomed to how mmorpg works.