Add a unique stat to the new Relics, so they are worth obtaining. Enough is enough.

[RiceisNice]

If you thought the community was toxic, just wait untill that is ever implemented.

And as it has been stated before, people already do this anyway in regards to clear parties and such. There's no reason to be so concerned about a very small group of individuals who are most likeily going to play with themselves anyway (and they probably are) if they had that sort of mindset.

[Belhi]

While the additional stat are made to easy your salvage raiding, but it's not a min requirement.
If you can raid without now, why is it a min requirement for you or your team mate ?

It's still an optional.

The scaling of difficulty mainly the scaling of hp/atk/def of mobs you fight in it.
They have done that system in other games, again... A fast name popped up is FF11, which majority here doesn't like to compare with...
It just a matter they want to do it or not.

Its not optional because SE will have to balance content around the stats because otherwise it will adversely effect the targeted difficulty for the content. Whats more is raid groups will start to expect their raiders to get the weapon and those who don't will be seen has holding the rest back. That's what happens when you introduce things that effect power levels dramatically.

As for the scaling, if the system was in place they could already be using it. It doesn't and such systems are not minor to implement. Also in most cases balancing the highest level difficulty content isn't feasible with scalable content. Even WoW which has almost its entire raid structure scalable still has set conditions for their highest raiding.

I have never played FF11 so I cant comment on it. However assuming that a model that works in the FF11 engine will translate well into the FF14 one is rather optimistic.

[Klamor]

I guess nobody remembers seeing any of the PF requiring members to "show Primal Weapon" before joining their farms or even the clear parties "for their friends."

I'm more of a casual raider, and I would definitely not have an issue with the relic being more desirable. I imagine that the raid groups that everyone thinks would ruin the experience by requiring people to have the relic are already missing the groups that are doing this now. Any group you see for anything that requires a previous clear is doing exactly what you think would happen if the relic actually had something interesting on it. Nothing's going to change.

Otherwise, the raid groups that actually clear the content fully understand that the relic (being the same ilevel as the end raid reward) wouldn't be required to clear in the first place (since those groups clear the raids without the highest ilevel weapon in all cases). Also, those players joining the raid groups that demand players to be at a certain gear level before joining aren't the groups that any of us that actually give a shit about the relic are going to be able to join in the first place. Those groups are tight; have usually played together for a significant amount of time - in more than one game; and will be working toward whatever will help them succeed together.

Sorry, the excuse that "people might get excluded" is old and dry. If you really want join that group, I guess you're just going to have to do whatever you need in order to meet the wickets, otherwise you can find another group to join.

[Theplatter]

Sorry, the excuse that "people might get excluded" is old and dry. If you really want join that group, I guess you're just going to have to do whatever you need in order to meet the wickets, otherwise you can find another group to join.

Thank you. This is a piss-poor excuse to not have some interesting and different in the game (by ARR/Heavensward standards).

[Dyvid]

I think another huge issue with relic and more over gear in general is they carry little weight in 80% of the content we do. Let's take 3.0 and 3.1 for example. I did Alex:N, got my full set and seat at i192 then stop playing for a month or so waiting for 3.1, I would guess I could have been i200ish if I kept at it. Anyway, 3.1 drops and based off of DF requirements we had 2 dungeon @ i170 difficultly, VA @ 175 difficutly, Diadem @ i179 difficulty, and Thordian EX @ i190 difficulty.

The question must be ask then, why are we spending so much time and energy collecting gear that we don't even need? Gear needs to matter in this game and not just gimme glamours. I honestly think the moment I was disenfranchised was a month before finishing my Alex:N, i190 set, SE released the i200 Eso items. It was just too much too soon for my taste.

[Shurrikhan]

Just going to repost this from a similar thread for now. In reference to relics needing new or unique stats:

As much as I'd like reasons by which we might actually get to very the priorities or dynamics of our rotations as we acquire and slot more gear, I feel like this method, unless incredibly potent and necessary, is only going to waddle towards and quickly fall short of almost any goal you can assign to it, and soon enough the custom stats are just going to feel like that random little bonus you find on a Borderlands weapon, which you still throw out mere days later, at best.

Consider: would it actually provide more job identity to have specific job mechanics embonused? I can improve my Jump, but my Jump is still my Jump, used at its Jump rate, with approximately its Jump damage, approximately its Jump (base) critical strike bonus. Until I'm actually getting something that allows me to hover in the air to avoid damage and fall for more, or to reset my Jump CD, or change its CD method (allowing it to be rushed or overcharged), or to spend BotD for additional Jump damage, has it really done anything to the internal balance/dynamics of the job (e.g. the proportion of especially DRG-like elements to merely Lancer-esque elements)? Has it furthered your niche any (which would merely the same as any other 200 to 360 oGCD), affecting the external balance/dynamics?

I'm all for giving us some interesting effects, but unless they are also resultantly significant, they aren't going to be interesting for very long. In a way, we could even say the same of the secondary stats we already have. If their strength was increased by a third, and the effect of primary stats cut back accordingly, not only would be have wider horizontal gear choice, but we'd also be able to pursue more experimental rotations. If they were more balanced across all jobs, we'd also have more freedom of choice therein. (Food for thought--what if Skill Speed and Spell Speed were one stat, benefiting PLDs, DRKs, and Bards? What if Speed increased TP regen tick frequency (ticking at 50 per base GCD, with Paeon, etc. ticking for 20% less per receiving player's GCD)? What if Speed had at least some effect on AAs and oGCDs? What if Speed scaled a percentage of remaining GCD, rather than at a mostly flat rate (xGCD/Speed), such that it wasn't relatively inferior at low numbers and especially strong at high numbers? Alternatively, imagine if a job had a mechanic where damage dealt over a certain buff's duration gradually raised your AP accordingly, causing exponential use of stats during that window. Or, imagine if a job had a mechanic in which a rotational proc triggered only on critical strikes, such that increased critical strike chance could condense the expected build window for that move. Those are all small adjustments or additions that could actually have large rotational effects, albeit within the limits, as always, of the job's windows of opportunity. While basic--still using only three offensive stats--they would create a lot more gear-based character progression, and likely even identity, than "+15% Jump damage", etc.

To try to shorten this up into a simple distinction, what I think you'd want to look for in 'unique' stats would be something less like "stats" and more like "traits", introducing new mechanics. But the fact is if you go that route, they'll actually mean something, which then means they'll be obligatory. They may yet be balanced fairly, thereby maximizing our options and avoiding the "X materia or gtfo" paradigm, but not only will everyone at least taking the time after each item received to slot it, but there's going to be some rebalancing required if their effects start exceeding, say, 3-5% net dps increase. If this means going out and grinding through a cluster---- like Diadem to get as much gear as possible to go through another ----storm to bond and convert for a chance of decent materia, I can't honestly say I'm too happy about that. If it drops from doing things that I already like doing, and especially if it can be transferred into new items (even if requiring time or effort in exchange, just preferably not [only] expensive crafter items), then I would love it, absolutely.

tldr; even the secondary stats we have already don't have to be boring; there's merely too little effective output, and too few stat-driven windows (especially outside of Speed) to distinguish them or cause them to make us think newly about how we play our job. The same will be true of anything else you add without giving it enough power to actually affect gameplay significantly.

As for the relic itself at this stage, I honestly think things would have been basically fine if the third step had just been roughly 50% and/or was given a way to be accelerated by more difficult content, if only because even if it's not 5 or more ilvl above the current best weapon, it's still an obvious investment to be built upon at a later time and does at least, for the time being, allow access to something we could not otherwise have, be it an i210 weapon or the particular BiS from among it, the esoteric, and the Gordian weapons.

That being said, the full grind is disgusting on paper and likely just as disgusting even when nearly done (for those who aren't discouraged by its sheer length even before really starting in).

[Nalien]

Someone made a good post about using FFIX AP system, and applying it on this game. General gear gets general things. Raid gear getting obviously much well deserved ones and things like Relic getting something really job specific.

And like the eldritch abomination I am, I answer the call to repeat my masters message;

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1465624

How about we get this done already, SE? Wouldn't have to be anything too serious. Remember how you forgot to give us new traits in Heavensward? Here's a fun way to stick them in.

Also, really? You delayed Anima Weapons because Alexander ones aren't i215? Are you f*cking serious? You mean you delayed them because you remembered the issues people cried about in 2.0 a bit too late? I seem to remember Allagan weapons getting bumped up to i95 to separate them from relics back then. So let me get this strait, you delayed the quest because of that, knowing full well that it would take your average user quite some time to actually obtain the bleedin' things, and not one person went "Why are we delaying it a month when they probably wont even finish it in a month? Why don't we just release it now and bump Alexander weapons up while they're stuck on the third step?", not one person? Bravo...

[Kikoten]

I only heard about how rough the third step was until I actually completed step two last night.

When I met the NPC whose hoohoo I'm gonna be suckling until the cows come home, my heart sank. It's gonna take me at least a year. At least. I don't play that often because of my busy work schedule, and in the times I do get days off, I sometimes have to do other things, because I have more than one interest than just FFXIV, as much as I love the game.

EDIT: How I feel about it, I best could put in the words of the Astral Doors: "I'm entertained, am I still sane? I'm of a breed that you will never ever tame."

[silentwindfr]

i will be blunt, they will never do it... i think people didn't understand the message yoshida did send in the last live letter.

the relic is a bone, that the sad truth.... a bone throw at the community don't doing raid.
they know that the game is empty for combat content outside raid, the dungeon are generic and barelly challenging. they don't want we do anything else than raid at high level...
if you see him answer most of them concern is about raiding and the people doing it.

Raid need better item
Diadem did offer the same reward level than raid, killing the raid
relic can't arrive to the same level and bring the same level than raid.... that why we do get it at 3.25 and 3.3 the next step.

all of him talk is about the freaking raid. can he told us how many people did take part into savage? into the precious raid content. i'm furious to see them continue to ignore people that don't have friend or simply time for find a static and do raid and refuse to offer them a content of challenge that don't recquire 7 other people.

they will not bring challenge in the relic, they will not bring special attribut or trait or stats, because it will make the relic the most desirable weapon of the game.... making the raid weapon less desirable.
that the truth behind the whole trouble of FF14.... they only really care for one small part of the community. i already see raider coming say, if you don't do raid don't complain.... or if you don't like the game don't play it. sadly i'm not the only one don't doing raid and not interested into them jump roping content.

[DracotheDragon]

*puts on my sunglasses with +5 blind resistance*

in all serious the 'generic stats' are pretty much all the stats unless they start calling them by new names.