Why is "It's something to do" apparently a valid defense?

[Alahra]

doesn't learn from the old relics in the slightest

This at least is kind of an exaggeration. The Anima quest is improved in a number of ways compared to the ARR stages and even directly incorporated some feedback regarding the Atma stage into the early Animated stage. I talked about a number of the improvements that make the quest more player friendly a few posts back.

[RiceisNice]

This at least is kind of an exaggeration. The Anima quest is improved in a number of ways compared to the ARR stages and even directly incorporated some feedback regarding the Atma stage into the early Animated stage. I talked about a number of the improvements that make the quest more player friendly a few posts back.

It's a bit of both. I feel like they trimmed out the parts that were well received by the playerbase (such as the intial relic quest and practically everything attached to that) and tossed it aside in favor of systems that are rather less appealing (2.x content that doesn't encourage open-world liveliness), and while hitting the marks of areas that truly need addressing (like CT). Even if FATEs are good for leveling, it'll end up being dead again after the rush, same with alexander normal, at least if Garuda HM was anything to go by with nexus/zeta grinds.

[Lambdafish]

This at least is kind of an exaggeration. The Anima quest is improved in a number of ways compared to the ARR stages and even directly incorporated some feedback regarding the Atma stage into the early Animated stage. I talked about a number of the improvements that make the quest more player friendly a few posts back.

Thinking about it, you are right, I was more looking at phase 3, completely forgetting about the improvements to phase 1, I'll amend my comment because that was unfair of me to say.

[WinterLuna]

For the most part though, thats not the case, the arguments have been that the content is bland, uninspiring and doesn't learn from the old relics in the slightest, not to mention the complaints about the delay.

Then people need to present their arguments in this way and actually be constructive with what they're saying. From what I've seen, most people are mindlessly ranting, have some kind of issue with the players who enjoy the content and then finally realise if they're going to get anywhere they need to back up their argument, after already spouting about SE defenders and white knights. This isn't going to help their argument in any way. Of course it works both ways too and there's people with the opposite argument doing the same thing.

If people really thought about what they were saying before writing it, there would probably be a lot less drama going on.

[Kallera]

Then people need to present their arguments in this way and actually be constructive with what they're saying. From what I've seen, most people are mindlessly ranting, have some kind of issue with the players who enjoy the content and then finally realise if they're going to get anywhere they need to back up their argument, after already spouting about SE defenders and white knights. This isn't going to help their argument in any way. Of course it works both ways too and there's people with the opposite argument doing the same thing.

If people really thought about what they were saying before writing it, there would probably be a lot less drama going on.

You been going on about this slight against people that aren't even accusing you of white knighting for about 3 days. There have been numerous threads and posts here and in the quests forum discussing the relic quests' shortcomings in detailed fashion. All fully available for even you to discuss in. Self appointing yourself as mod and attempting to regulate behavior(in a biased fashion, at that) is not necessary.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

[JakzChurchill]

I think it depends on the criticism. If the criticism is "This takes too much effort, dumb it down for me" Then yeah, I'm going to start speaking up and telling the whiners to pipe down.

The issue I'm seeing (and I'm not saying you are part of this) is a lot of people are misinterpreting peoples criticism so that they fit this complaint.

The majority of the complaints that I feel hold a lot of value aren't about the effort taken, but the way / timing of /amount of content that was implemented, the effort:reward ratio is just the cherry on top which adds to the aggravation but is not the crux of many arguments.

[Critical-Limit]

Alright let's try to be constructive?

I'd like negative people to post what they might consider fun, or if not fun, what would make the grind worth it?

For positive people, is there anyway for this grind to be fun for those upset, without hurting what you like about the current state of the quest.
Also if you can think of a way to make it even more fun what are your ideas?

I personally think for the hardcore people they should've made an extreme version of chimera or hydra fights, optional. Where it's pretty hard but mastered can get you those parts a little quicker. That let's the people who don't like hard content continue on the easier but slightly more grindier path.

[Lambdafish]

Alright let's try to be constructive?

I'd like negative people to post what they might consider fun, or if not fun, what would make the grind worth it?

For positive people, is there anyway for this grind to be fun for those upset, without hurting what you like about the current state of the quest.
Also if you can think of a way to make it even more fun what are your ideas?

I personally think for the hardcore people they should've made an extreme version of chimera or hydra fights, optional. Where it's pretty hard but mastered can get you those parts a little quicker. That let's the people who don't like hard content continue on the easier but slightly more grindier path.

I think it would be nice if bismark and ravana (NM and EX), and even the CT raids could have been included in phase 3, I would love to get back into that content, and ultimately, I think the more variety that phase 3 could bring, the better. Also I feel that smoothing out the UI for the quest would go a long way to increase my enjoyment, by this I mean that the quest feels very overwhelming when I have to repeatedly check a guide as to how many clears I need, or how many items I need, and because there is so much stuff in so many places it makes the whole thing seem clunky.

On top of this, a big nerf should be seen to the crafting section of the quest, because thats not a grind, thats a gate that requires you to shell out an arbitrary amount of gil to the MB (not a grind because the amount isn't set, and can be abused by the community), have friends that are uber crafters (not always possible), or somehow make them yourself with all 8 specialist crafts (even if you have crafts leveled... good luck with that). I'm ok with the crafts being there, but it would be a lot more appealling if it was 1 or 2 of each instead of 4.

I feel that the grind would feel a lot easier with these ideas implemented

[Kaurie]

Alright let's try to be constructive?

I'd like negative people to post what they might consider fun, or if not fun, what would make the grind worth it?

1. Release 170 (make it 180) item at 3.0 Launch, have three options to obtain it:
1. 10x Bismark EX clears to obtain (using the current bismark tokens) Bismark Weapons were already obsolete on arrival and this would not have changed that
2. Current fate ATMA 2.0 - great we get to level our 2nd classes right from the get go
3. Zeta turn in

2. Release 200 Weapon at launch of Alex Savage and Esoterics:
1. 10x Ravana EX clears (using the current hive tokens) With esoterics weapons launching at this time, Hive weapons were soon to be obsolete
2. Grind the same dungeons currently listed

3. Release 210 Weapon on launch of 3.15
1. 10x Thordan EX clears This would effectively make the Thordan weapon obsolete; however, you would need to have had a relic up to this point and clear Thordan 10x minimum as oppose to a potential drop of a 205 weapon
2. Similar system to now, cut down the amounts from 20 to 5 each, allow for Grand Company Seals and Wolf Marks as usable currency
#. Remove crafting pieces requirement

[RiceisNice]

it. I also didn't like how short the Relic felt originally, as it made them ultimately feel "cheap" after I had one for every level 50 job, and it's as a result of feedback along those lines that we got the Relic+Zodiac extended grind in ARR and the present Anima .

You'd have to consider that at the time, base relic would be severely merged by the passage of time. You had weekly lock in the times required, and the crafting matierals were not abundent since they were dungeon drop