What is wrong with people on the forum..?

[Dante_V]

This forum has it's own reputation among the community for various reasons that are not so flattering. Needless to say you (OP) are correct about the vocal minority idealism. There is also a profound arrogance which leads back to the first thing i said, that because someone doesn't like something it is wrong or broken. Regardless of the composition or demographic of the forum, the majority of the community do have some relevant gripes in certain cases, but those seem to be the minority of what is posted here and most often times flooded out by people who think they know better than the people who have created the game, or wish to speak for everyone on their behalf with no authority.

At the end of the day the people who like it will play, those that don't will not. This is the only objective trend that will matter in the end.

[TouchandFeel]

My thoughts on the general state of 3.15 and the Official Forums' reaction.

The situation in game is not nearly as bad or dire as the forums make it out to be. There are many players participating in the new relic content. It is true that there are some disgruntled players that make it known ingame, but I experienced far more players that were enjoying having something new to strive for. How long that enjoyment will last is to be seen.

Have missteps happened? Yes. Could improvements be made? Also yes. Is 3.15 the Eorzean Rapture calling players away to other games leaving the game an empty wasteland? No, some may leave, others will come back and many will stick around.

As others have already pointed out, forums, comment sections and a lot of the internet as a whole are vitriolically negative, so don't be surprised when you see mostly that on a game forum.

I fully support people voicing their opinions on matters and things, but pissing and moaning does get old and really accomplishes very little. when so many people resort to this type of "feedback" over seemingly anything and everything, it just turns into this annoying background noise that is always there and you wish would just go away, like a TV or ceiling light that puts out a just perceptible humming noise.
Speaking plainly, the fastest way to get people to want to ignore your "feedback" is to give it in a "whiny" way.

So I guess a caveat is in order.
I support people voicing their opinions when they have put some level of thought into it and present it in a constructive manner.

If you want people to take your opinion on something seriously and not see it as just whining, then just simply do the following: state what the issue is, state why it is an issue, deconstruct the greater issue so that the smaller parts can be evaluated, evaluate the greater issue and the smaller parts that make it up from multiple angles and viewpoints to gain a better understanding of the issue, use the greater understanding of the issue to then formulate solutions to the issue from the smaller parts all the way up to the whole.
This may seem like a lot to do but really it isn't, its basic critical thinking and is something everyone should practice and enact in their daily lives.
Some people on these forums are doing this, but also many are not.

Also, this goes beyond just posting your ideas and expressing your opinions, but when you also respond to other people's posts and opinions. Follow the same steps, be respectful and don't make just knee jerk, snippy and rude responses. Trashing others on the internet doesnt make you cool or win you any awards (at least none worth having) and if you have to do it to feel good about yourself, well then you have much bigger and deeper issues than someone disagreeing with you on a forum.

Now, if we as the players want the dev team to listen to us we will have to do what is seemingly impossible, agree.
Basically, the dev team can't make decisions based on biased opinions of individuals and small groups, they have to make decisions based on what they know they can do that will hopefully please the most people.
When feedback is not unified and is often times contradicting itself due to so many different camps of thought saying things have to be their way or else, how can you expect the devs to be able to make a decision that won't ultimately piss someone off?
The only way we as players can become unified is by being considerate of each other and trying to work together towards a greater common goal, helping the dev team know what will make the game better for us the players. That means getting passed our own bias and hang-ups, listening to other people's opinions (when they are expressed in a constructive manner) and most importantly making concessions and suggestions to help better integrate the desires and opinions of others into your own so that a solution that will benefit the most people can be reached.

Yes it is impossible to give everyone exactly what they may "want", but it is not impossible to please everyone if everyone is willing to rein in their own selfish desires to make room for others.

In game and in real life, we as residents of this world, real or virtual, are in it together whether we like it or not and we will always be stronger and be able to accomplish more and better affect positive change if we work together. Try to constantly force your own way and all you do is bump into everyone else doing the same. Band together and move as a unified group and the people that were previously obstacles no longer are, as they are moving with you and helping you to get to where you and they want to be.

[Critical-Limit]

People assume just because they see people doing fates, THEY must be enjoying themselves.

I'm one of those people you would've assumed that about Because In-game I'm not gonna cry in /shout while people are farming.

I farmed for a bit, so someone assumed I had fun while actually I was constantly fighting myself on whether this is worth it or not.

[karateorangutang]

Last night was one of the first times ever that I was asked to go help do content and I simply said no. I told them that i'll do just about anything, but this relic quest is a grind that will not be fun for me, so I'm not going to open the quest. I felt bad telling them so, but I have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.

[Warlyx]

why are we complaining?

because they said that relic will be in 3.0....nop...3.1? NOP .....ok 3.15 , we waited hoping this relic quest chain will be as awesome...as 2.0 chimera + hydra (exclusive relic stuff), some dungeon , kill some mobs , and grind of course .

in the end we got atma 2.0 , running 2.0 + low lvl 30 dungeons , and after all of that grind alex , tribes quest (2.0 included) , farm poetics (2.0 ) , and law tomes....and the cherry on top? HQ crafted items......

why this wasnt released in 3.0 (at least the first quests ?) , why not in 3.1? ....

[Critical-Limit]

Stuff

Imagine you're running a company, you have a daily average of 200 returning customers. There are only 5 people who complain about the lack of breakfast items in the isle. The other customers are like "lol don't like it go to another store I like that I don't have to waste time lookin at breakfast items"

So they listen and go elsewhere. Then another group complain about the date on the milk always being too close to expiration. The people who only have 3 people living at their place take business elsewhere because the people who have 8 people in their family can drink through it fine. How long are people suppose to just take mediocre service before the store loses a lot of it's customers?

The people complaining are doing you a favor because the people who claim to enjoy this relic quest are just settling, when they could have a better experience. The complainer's keep the quality in check, so more people enjoy it and stay longer.

[Evangela]

There's nothing wrong with people complaining. It's as wrong as America's first amendment.

If there's something wrong, it's people who can't/don't accept different opinions and try to shut them up.

[SchalaZeal]

1. It takes about 30 days to get the tokens if you do expert roulette, lv 60 roulette, lv 50 roulettes (which is 460 law and between 120 and 200 poetics), beastmen (Vanu + 9 from others = also an extra 90 poetics) as well as a map like wyvernskin daily. So it's not "but I'll get it in 3.5!!" nope, it's way easier and faster. If you didn't level your beast tribe rep by now, it's all on you. And getting a gather to 51 to get archaeoskin maps isn't that onerous.

2. Stop saying people want new content tied to the relic like Chimera and Hydra. Some might want that, but it's definitely not everyone who wants content that's soon forgotten and a pain to organize runs for after when its no longer current. Primals have longer lasting time *because* they're not specifically tied to relic. The lv 49 trial in Western Thanalan is also a pain because outside story there is no reason to run it. Thankfully at lv 60 you can carry someone with just 2 people. I much prefer running the roulettes and beastmen and having Alex NM an option, than new special just-for-relic stuff.

3. People will want to run the relic for more than one job, likely not-their-main to get other jobs with i200+ weapons. And people will get multiple up to i210 (maybe even all 13) for looks but also for achievement and to be ready for the next step. I'm personally hoping for picking secondaries for Summoner, since the relic is bad for Crit now. But I'll do it anyway (after Scholar, yay crit on relic!!).

4. Oh and people claiming Titan HM and other skill-based content is good for relic, and how we should run extreme primals for relic. No, just no. Just Bismarck HM can be a pain to run if you help someone. It would be very anti-casual. Be a roadblock like A3S, but for people who'd never set foot in savage. I much prefer time and effort to skill-wall and frustration. Even if I could personally scale that wall.

5. I very very very much appreciate that the tokens are not RNG-gated and that I don't have to change my religion and pray to RNGesus for tokens. I prefer that to 10% chance drop from 16 different dungeons, a million times better.

[Kaurie]

Gee, if only people playing this game had some incentive to improve.

Beyond that, this part got me

Just Bismarck HM can be a pain to run if you help someone.

Iiiiiss, this part true? Are people actually having troubles on Bismark Hard? Like enough that if you had to do it for relic that people would never be able to complete it?

2. Stop saying people want new content tied to the relic like Chimera and Hydra. Some might want that, but it's definitely not everyone who wants content that's soon forgotten and a pain to organize runs for after when its no longer current. Primals have longer lasting time *because* they're not specifically tied to relic. The lv 49 trial in Western Thanalan is also a pain because outside story there is no reason to run it. Thankfully at lv 60 you can carry someone with just 2 people. I much prefer running the roulettes and beastmen and having Alex NM an option, than new special just-for-relic stuff..

I get what you are saying here, but stop and think about it for a second. Every thing in the game will eventually become outdated and people will do less and less of it as time goes on. This includes fates, dungeons, trials, raids etc. So no matter what, people will do less of any new content eventually than at release. So ultimately you are saying that you'd rather no new content should be involved. Is that correct? Don't you think that seems a little silly? I mean, it's what we got, but to me that seems crazy.

[Nominous]

Stop saying people want new content tied to the relic like Chimera and Hydra. Some might want that, but it's definitely not everyone who wants content that's soon forgotten and a pain to organize runs for after when its no longer current. Primals have longer lasting time *because* they're not specifically tied to relic.

So apparently running 800 Alexander normals is better than the trouble of organizing a couple of runs of content that was made specifically for the Relic? Apparently, leveling beast tribes from literal nothingness is better than it too? I'm glad they added more ways to grind this stuff out. However, I'm one of the people who just wishes that there was an option, alongside the grind, that allowed for me to just win a couple coil difficulty fights (made specifically for relic) to progress, instead of a ton of tedious EASY, and boring tasks.