If the relic weapons stayed relevant like FFXI they would be worth the grind.

[NoahArks]

If relic weapons had no glow they would look less retarded. If I wanted glowing weapons I'd play swtor. Give them subtle color changes or add something to the appearance. Let them look completely normal without any kind of "relic" look and with each step add features and at the final step give them a attack effect.

[Reynhart]

Almost everyone that I know of that is doing relic right now is running them unsynced.

You can't unsynced post lvl50 dungeons.

I190 gear is only so-so now and doesn't have the draw it had a few months ago.

i190 is not "so-so" for fresh lvl 60. For example, my alt is only 150 because I've played at a slow pace withr my wike. I plan to take her to Alex as soon as possible to use it at a stepping stone. With, the relic, we'll most likely join people who won't even roll on the loot, so we'll be able to increase our ilvl rapidly.

Your telling me when 3 people queue in for their roulette that they are gonna take the time to explain things to a new player?

Because you think new players are too stupid to grasp the mechanics by themselves ?

Dynamis was long term gains. It had a very lucrative way of getting gil, and the gears from that place were used for a long while even in macro swaps.

Dynamis was a mess. The fact that ancient currencies were used to both the relics and to gain gils was the dumbest idea. With that, people needed to join a HLS to participate in Dynamis AND STILL spend millions of gils to keep the currencies.

[karateorangutang]

You can't unsynced post lvl50 dungeons.

i190 is not "so-so" for fresh lvl 60. For example, my alt is only 150 because I've played at a slow pace withr my wike. I plan to take her to Alex as soon as possible to use it at a stepping stone. With, the relic, we'll most likely join people who won't even roll on the loot, so we'll be able to increase our ilvl rapidly.

Because you think new players are too stupid to grasp the mechanics by themselves ?

Dynamis was a mess. The fact that ancient currencies were used to both the relics and to gain gils was the dumbest idea. With that, people needed to join a HLS to participate in Dynamis AND STILL spend millions of gils to keep the currencies.

I'll concede on the first point obviously, I was wrong there. It still is a band-aid. It's a fairly short phase that will be over quickly so any benefits for other players is gonna be minimal.

Dynamis was at least versatile is my point, this really isnt. I might consider it as such if it was something in the range of 30 runs a floor for Alexander. Even that many runs would be enough to gear several jobs. As it sits it would be complete overkill.

The stupid comment? Really?
No, new players often need mechanics explained to them or want to watch cut-scenes and participate and feel like they are doing something. Don't label me a bully because you misinterpreted me. I'm thinking about the wonderment and the excitement that alot of people get the first time they go into something and gets run over by people speed running cause they are on a schedule to get a drop. This content doesn't make them feel good.

Yes I speak from experience here.

[Zumi]

You get to keep upgrading your weapon and the grind is no where near as long as FFXI. FFXI took me like 4 years to get enough currency to finish Excalibur pre dynamis nerf. FFXIV takes like a month of playing casually and doesn't require a dynamis group with 64 people+.

[Reynhart]

No, new players often need mechanics explained to them or want to watch cut-scenes and participate and feel like they are doing something.

Yes, some of them like to watch cut-scene, and frankly, I don't care. It's not a big deal to wait for few minutes now and then.
As for the mechanics, no, they won't. I've played with lots of people who like to discover, and I like it too. If I have to join a friend who is new, I tend to keep explanation at the minimum so that they can enjoy figuring out the fights work.
Yes, maybe we'll wipe one time, but still, it's not that big of a deal.

[karateorangutang]

Yes, some of them like to watch cut-scene, and frankly, I don't care. It's not a big deal to wait for few minutes now and then.
As for the mechanics, no, they won't. I've played with lots of people who like to discover, and I like it too. If I have to join a friend who is new, I tend to keep explanation at the minimum so that they can enjoy figuring out the fights work.
Yes, maybe we'll wipe one time, but still, it's not that big of a deal.

Ok, so that's you. I'm glad your kind enough, but it's not the case very often. Need proof?

Run main scenario several times. You find me a majority that people don't run over new players.

The "my needs are greater than yours" mentality is strong in every game in existence. It's the dev teams responsibility to minimize the damage of that. It's bad design if it's not doing so.

If you like the content then that is great. I'm glad someone is getting their money's worth out of the game. No sarcasm with this statement at all.

That doesn't change my opinion that its poorly, lazily, designed busy work created to keep us occupied while they fix greater issues. It also doesn't fix the incredibly narrow scope of it.

Was it progress in the right direction? Sure I would buy that. It does feel like it was slapped together in a hasty fashion.

[Reinha]

Even if you like the grind and that's for you, how are you going to feel when its inevitably nerfed ( there's a strong history of that here ) and I finish in 2 weeks what took you 2 months then grind out the next stage of my relic in a short time because of all the backlash that is happening at this stage. If you wouldn't care then that is great. I have a feeling that you would be in the minority.

I don't like grind in the usual sense, where you repeat the same thing over and over every minute of every day until you meet the goal. Like leveling gathering by gathering in the overworld. Or fishing, that is the worst. I prefer "long term goals", exactly the kind which the Animated Weapons are. Multiple activities which all get me closer to some goal. Honestly I think the first part is going to be the worst for me, because it's pure oldschool grinding. It will likely take me 3-4 months to get the AW. Still, I don't mind! It's not a race against a clock to get to use the weapon (use it where exactly? everything can be done with other weapons). It's a journey. I like to juggle multiple goals and no day looks the same for me, gaming-wise. This relic didn't bring any new instanced content, but we still got the weapon quests and Scholasticate in this mini-patch. I'll do those whilst enjoying the multiple "journeys" I'm on elsewhere in the game. Leveling alts, old ninja relic, glamours, sightseeing, dailies, hunts all break the routine so often there is no routine.

I've spent some time ahead of the gear curve, and I can tell you it gets old. Gear gets replaced eventually, but memories of having a good time? They stay. If someone gets their AW in 2 weeks later on, then so be it. They won't get to do it while it's new, so they are the ones losing out. I, on the other hand, get to experience the quest as intended and also have an extra incentive to do the things I already like doing. If a person is still stuck in the mental hamster wheel of gear upgrades, I can understand why it would bother them that someone catches up in only 2 weeks when they worked their arse off for months. But as soon as they realize that gear is irrelevant, they can truly enjoy the game at their own pace without pressure. Maybe I am in the minority, seeing how the biggest outrage on the forums at any point is always about gear and item levels.

[Amiaze]

But how much more can that excuse be used?

To clarify: I was not trying to defend the current set-up by saying that we're only one expansion in and should give it time. I was trying to say that I believe the expansion content had already been made, and perhaps too late for certain feedback to be implemented. So anything we want changed likely won't be able to be changed until next expansion. I'm not saying to "give it time"; rather, we're on a predetermined course for the rest of Heavensward.

That being said, I'm willing to look past certain design flaws this go around. Come next expansion, however, I would very much like to see some drastic changes to the way gear upgrades and level progression are done.

[uzu]

what is really the point to do anything in the game like this when all your work just becomes a glamour in the end.

[dinnertime]

I don't know, I think the time you'll invest for FFXIV's relics and for FFXI's relics reflects their usefulness in time. It doesn't take that long to finish getting your relic weapon here, which is about a month or couple more, and FFXI's relics take about a year or more. It kinda sucks though.