Does SE want to us go back to WoW? Because this is how you lose MORE players to WoW.

[Zophar]

I just want to point out that relic is not optional content... ...True optional content are the pieces of content that are fun but dont contribute to progression (see hildibrand, gold saucer, and postmoogle), and I'm allowed to complain about those too.

It is not your only course to get said weapon though, so it is entirely optional. By the logic you gave, Alex Savage is also NOT optional. Because you will never be able to achieve best in slot without a blend of both Eso gear, and Gordian. So all you casuals whining about the relic, go do Alex S instead. It's not optional content. You heard it here first!

[Lambdafish]

It is not your only course to get said weapon though, so it is entirely optional. By the logic you gave, Alex Savage is also NOT optional. Because you will never be able to achieve best in slot without a blend of both Eso gear, and Gordian. So all you casuals whining about the relic, go do Alex S instead. It's not optional content. You heard it here first!

I... I'm lost for words, its like you completely manipulated what I said, you even cut out the entire explanation to suit your own agenda. Clutching at straws are we?

I'll explain again, because apparently you can't read. Relic contributes greatly to character progression, which is the end game for battle classes, and you completely miss the point of the quest by calling it optional. It's like calling master books optional for crafters, they don't have to do them or get them in the slightest, but its how they progress and obtain the best recipes.

If it were truly optional, you would not see many people ask and figure out which path is best suited to the progression of their job. For jobs like DRK and WAR, relic is far better suited to their PROGRESSION than alex savage and eso, so if they want the best weapon for their class, thats the way to go. Other classes like MCH and NIN(?) are better suited to other pieces of content to aid their progression. It is optional in the sense that there are alternatives and you do not NEED it (to put that into perspective you do not NEED anything in this game because content is so easily accessable these days), but it is not optional in that the game makes it part of your primary progression, and high end players are obligated to get the weapon as it is endgame.

We are getting slightly off topic anyway, my final point is that you are saying that people can't complain because its optional, and to do something else, but when the relic weapon is the best weapon for your class, and your eso weapon is garbage in comparison, but another classes eso weapon is much better than their relic, I dont think that saying "go do other content" is grounds to not be allowed to complain.

[Zophar]

I... I'm lost for words, its like you completely manipulated what I said, you even cut out the entire explanation to suit your own agenda. Clutching at straws are we?

I didn't manipulate anything. I just used your logic and took it a step further. Either way, even the mere act of aiming for BiS is completely optional. I absolutely grant you that some of the relics have better thats than the 210 eso, or gordian, but is it really enough to make it absolutely essential? Has having less desirable secondary stats on a single piece ever made a game breaking difference? No. Will the better secondary stats win? Yes. By a huge margain? No. You can choose to go for the Eso, or Gordian, or Anima. And while some choices will be more desirable than others, the grand difference is minimal. So, yes, if you're a person who is obsessed with every single piece of gear you own to be BiS, then yeah, I guess it's not mandatory, and even then, only for certain select jobs.

But the same can be said for all things in the game. Some people really love lore and backstory. So MSQ and sidequests, are NOT optional. Some people need a serious challenge that only endgame can provide, therefor, endgame is NOT optional. Some people love crafting, gathering, pvp, etc, etc. Get what I'm saying? Everything is a choice. You're not being forced to do it. You're choosing to do it. That, right there, is the definition of optional.

[Odysseus84]

I'd just as much see everyone calm down, SE gave us another option to continue progressing, and if you don't like it, go take on Alexander savage, all 4 floors, then complain how anima weps feel unfair to grind

We're not saying the grind is unfair. We're saying the grind, for the reward given, is not worth the effort. And as difficult as AS4S is, you can not deny that part 3 of the relic quest is one hell of a serious grind.

[Lambdafish]

We're not saying the grind is unfair. We're saying the grind, for the reward given, is not worth the effort. And as difficult as AS4S is, you can not deny that part 3 of the relic quest is one hell of a serious grind.

Personally I'm not even complaining about the grind, the grind is fair, its the crafting portion that is overkill. I can manage the grind, as it is slow but quantifiable progress, but the crafted items are a huge gate, and the specialisation means that it is impossible to get on your own. The solutions are find other players willing to craft these items for you (all 32), or have 15+ million gil (not even taking into account the other mats you need to get), and for some players this is not viable, let alone fair, and the reward is definitely not equatable.

[Odysseus84]

Either way, even the mere act of aiming for BiS is completely optional.

This is where you lose all credibility. For many, being mediocre is not an option. For any player that plays this game beyond crafting and has any intention of being taken seriously in a raid, the Relic quest is not optional. For every 1 person that the Relic is optional to, there are 5 that it i mandatory for. You cannot devalue their desire for a balanced quest (Effort+Time=Appropriate Reward) because of your war against "entitlement". As it stands, the reward given does not equal the sum of effort and time required to obtain it. Whether or not it's "optional" in your view does not change this.

[Zophar]

Personally I'm not even complaining about the grind, the grind is fair, its the crafting portion that is overkill.

See, I'm on your side on that one. I mean, I could accept the crafting part, if it was -possible- to have all specialist classes. At that point, it would be something you -could- do on your own if you chose it. Sadly, without mules, you can only have a max of 3 specialists, meaning that you have no choice but to be at the mercy of others. That I feel is pushing it. The actual grind itself though, as you said, is not bad. I've worked on getting my 5 most played jobs their 200 weapons since implementation. I have not even begun my alex grind yet, and just from beast quests, poetics, and law, with no special effort (outside of doing beast quests), I'm already sitting at 26/80. I could probably be done by now if I'd just focused a single weapon from the get go. As is, I started seeing completed Anima weapons as early as 4 days after the patch. Not that the majority of people can finish that fast, but it just shows it is -possible- to finish in under a week. That crafting though....

[Zophar]

faulty logic

Ok, first off, why, in the world, would having a relic make people take you more seriously in raid content? Why? Anyone can make one. Even the baddest of the bads. How does making a relic, make you be taken more seriously than, say, getting a Thordan weapon? Furthermore, the time required to get a 210 relic is MORE than fair. Start a relic from scratch, or start Alex savage from scratch, and see which one you finish first. If you wanna complain about the crafting part, fine. I'm on board with that. But the "time?" Explain to me how a relic should be easier to get than a Gordian or 210 Eso. Please.

[Blitzace]

Its optional, Relic always has been a grind. I'm almost done with it and i haven't even remotely focussed on it to much. Apart from running alex floor 1 and doing dungeons with friends and the hunts ofcourse.

Beast tribese i've done every day all 12 quests. Honestly, I've seen worse. and i can't wait to see what they bring as a next step.
I'll admit they need to spice it up, but if its BiS for your class, put some work in for it. But to whine about it and ask nerfs here and there already, no thanks.
Once again, i would like to see something else than light farm or item farm. Get some diversity in there.

[Lambdafish]

Relic always has been a grind. I'm almost done with it and i haven't even remotely focussed on it to much.

Whats your secret to getting the crafting items easily? I need to know!