is this game near the end of it's life?

[zosia]

SE is mah waifu, nothing they do is bad

I LOVE the relic, it has brought me more joy and happiness than I ever could have wanted. Casual players wanted a mindless toothless grind and they got it. /golfclap

I don't need the relic so I am not upset over it. I am not burned out over it so I can call a spade a spade. The relic grind is terrible and just more of the same BS repackaged from 2.0 with zero innovation. People are burned out because SE has burned them out with crap content for over half a year. 3.0 and 3.1 have been a flop and you can keep defending SE all you like, but you will be the only one left playing this game if you keep telling people to take a break. lolololol

[Critical-Limit]

make any lurking reader possibly interested in playing FFXIV doubt their interest? You're effectively hurting the game with this kind of pointless doom and gloom.

So you propose that existing people basically shut up and leave, for a chance to trick new people to into the game? They are adults or teenagers, they can read the arguments and make their own decision.

That's like me complaining about the quality of food at my own restaraunt. Instead of letting the boss know the cake taste like poop. You'd rather I shut up and leave so new people who don't know any better will still eat it.

[Jinrya-Geki]

...

I have been playing this game since the start of 1.0. In that time some many things have been promised and still haven't been delivered.

Stats- They said in 1.0 the stats would be dumbed down in 2.0 but would be more unique as it went on. We still have the same stats.

Dungeons- They said they were not making 3 anymore to make 2 more unique. The new ones aren't any different than the others that came before.

Raids- Never really got to try them, because of the thing I hate most in this game, lockout-statics. I am the odd man out. By the time I could freely do it something better was already out negating me wanting to do the old content. It was not changed so that everyone could be rewarded for the experience like they said they were going to.

I can go on.

[Faytte]

Yes. Honestly I don't understand how badly the game has gone, but it shows an inability to innovate. They (devs) are doing the same thing they have always done instead of moving the ball forward, and they are doing it in the least interesting way possible. Lets start off here with some core issues, then move to current ones.

1) Itemization is painfully boring.
Your main attributes mean more than secondaries to the point that if you can get more strength, that there is almost no circumstance in which another stat (say det or crit) would make an earlier piece of gear more or as valuable as a higher ilvl item. What this means is the only interesting decisions a player ever makes is between the same ilvl for very very VERY granular benefits. There is no real way to shape your play style around secondaries between two pieces of gear at any given tier. The gear is also incredibly boring---with a point or two of main stat being it really. There are no item sets which other games used or unique secondary effects on gear: something you saw both in FFXI and even FFXIV in 1.0, because Yoshi P believes this will cause issues where players will use older gear over newer gear--however *no* other game sees this as a problem, because that means players are now weighing options against one another. Do I want more strength and stamina or do I want -50% tp consumption on shield slam? Well this fight has a lot of stunning so maybe i'll use this shield vs that shield. Also item sets give huge rewards to players and are large carrots for them to persue. In WoW and most mmo's getting a 2/4/6 whatever piece bonus generally comes with great gameplay effects--it makes you FEEL awesome. Noting in FFXIV I'm sad to say does this any more.

2) There is no customization
Cross Class skills are a joke. Between the very small amount available and how some don't even make sense (why would a paladin want brutal swing, etc) your choices or more or less made for you. Of course every healer will get quick cast, every non paladin tank will take provoke. At this point where everyone picks the same thing, the point of this system is largely a failure. The purpose was to help non jobs but between pvp nerfs and the like this only makes any impact in the minority of gameplay (1 to 30). Cross class skills should just be removed, crucial skills for roles should appear in each class with their own flavor and a new customization system should be implemented. Also---giving us stat points for customization when they are all just thrown into main stat is another failure of understanding your own game, or the fact that every class gives up the chance to gain interesting traits for garbage like "+10 main stat" traits that could just be tied into your classes natural attribute gains.

3) There is no reason to try
Content comes out that is difficult with ilvl2** gear, but its a thin level of content (4 bosses) and you dont NEED the gear to clear that content unless the game puts in a ridiculous dps check. So you try hard and get that gear, but before any new hard core content comes out a softcore patch comes out that gives you X ways to get *THE SAME GEAR* with months of prep before the next hard core content comes out. So -why- do the hard core content aside from 'the thrill'? WoW does this very well (they do other things horribly) but they have many tiers of difficulty with many bosses per raid, and come out with raids much more rapidly. After heavensward released, WoW had patch 6.2 and released hellfire citadel, which over 10 weeks released bosses on 4 different difficulty and reward tiers out to players---for a total of 13 bosses. All these bosses are relevant---you will do LFR and normal for a while, then normal and heroic while you eventually work up to mythic. There is an actual progression where you need gear to CLIMB the ladder. The catch up mechanics in WoW dont get you to the TOP gear level, they get you high enough to begin the raid ladder and that is all!

But FFXIV cant do that---the difference between 'im ready to start raiding' and 'i cleared all content' is at this point, 10 to 15 i levels, all of which are made up in the next soft core patch.

4) Irrelevant or Bad Content

When was the last time you did bismark ex? That content was obsolete the day it came out.
How about chocobo racing? The thing you need to sit at the golden saucer to try. Go ahead, queue up; how many humans will you race against? I've raced 200+ times and never seen one.
Lords of Vermillion was a giant waste of time, and is clunky.
Diadem seems to focus on SE idea that players like hunts and want more hunt content--so they instanced hunts.

Now let me ask you, if SE had spent their time doing something productive instead of this (either by thinking through what each piece of content means against the whole better to ensure it would not be irrelevant immediately or by making 'better' content) would the game be in this state? Why did bismark have to drop a weapon that you then upgraded out of in 1 week from Ravanah? Who thought that would be a good idea?

5) The Relic Issue

When 2.0 came out, we had the relic quest more or less immediately. It was fresh and dealt with the current, relevant content.
When 3.0 came out, we were told relic needed more time. We were all hopeful it would be cool and new right?
When 3.05 came out, we were told to wait again--needed more time.
When 3.1 came out, we were told to wait again--needed more time.
And now we have 3.15 and have been given a system of atmas, dungeon grinding and the need to access the crafting system which every crafter I know now universally hates. What took *MONTHS* to complete, aside from the art assets? What were the developers doing? Where is the innovation? Why would you think forcing players to now go do content they got tired of MONTHS ago all over again (Alexander Normal) would be a good idea?

6) Raiding is dead
FFXIV Has no idea what to do with its raiding. It's either mind numbingly easy, or its AS3 level difficulty that targets the elite population. There is nothing targeting middle skill players---There is nothing *to do* if you are a pve focused player other than leveling alts, which i feel is all there has been to do for months and months now.

There are more issues obviously--I could go on, but the things I love about FFXIV (graphics, the little nuances and details) cant hide the fact that...the game isn't fun. There is nothing to do. FFXIV has I feel, lost it's own way.

I've been active since the 2.0 beta and my wife since 1.0. Today I think we will both be unsubscribing our accounts. I don't think 3.2 will bring us back--the issues here are just too rooted, too deep. Maybe when 4.0 hits we will check it out again.

[zosia]

So you propose that existing people basically shut up and leave, for a chance to trick new people to into the game? They are adults or teenagers, they can read the arguments and make their own decision.

That's like me complaining about the quality of food at my own restaraunt. Instead of letting the boss know the cake taste like poop. You'd rather I shut up and leave so new people who don't know any better will still eat it.

so good, have all the likes!

[Kosmos992k]

I have been playing this game since the start of 1.0. In that time some many things have been promised and still haven't been delivered.

I don't doubt that some 'promised' changes or features have not happened yet (or at all), but when you say that something is planned for a product that is coming in 2-3 years, a lot changes over the time, and priorities change, as do plans, so it's natural that some things have not happened. I'm not saying that explains or excuses all such missed 'promises' but you have to at least acknowledge reality there.

Stats- They said in 1.0 the stats would be dumbed down in 2.0 but would be more unique as it went on. We still have the same stats.

I'll give them 50% on this since they simplified the stats, but on the other hand, they are too simple and streamlined and I am not seeing any uniqueness...

Dungeons- They said they were not making 3 anymore to make 2 more unique. The new ones aren't any different than the others that came before.

What do you mean by different? Visually the appear very different. I agree about dropping from 3 to 2 dungeons. But I have to say that if they add 3 dungeons every 3 months that's 12 in a year, over 3 years that's 30 additional dungeons besides those added in the original game and expenansion. As a software developer and life long gamer I do actually have some sympathy with SE here. It's actually hard to make every dungeon truly unique, so I can see their reasoning. I'd still like to see more dungeons though, or dungeon like instanced battles in the overworld where we achieve objectives on the way to a boss fight - although that appears to be the model for some of the story quests, I'd enjoy it if they used a similar method for some 'dungeons' as well.

Raids- Never really got to try them, because of the thing I hate most in this game, lockout-statics. I am the odd man out. By the time I could freely do it something better was already out negating me wanting to do the old content. It was not changed so that everyone could be rewarded for the experience like they said they were going to.

I'm in the same boat, several of my friends are too, as are my wife and son. We're actually planning to run the whole coil at some point when we can agree a good time to start for everyone. That way we all get to play it, without the stress of end-game. However, I don't see the older content as negated by new content because I'm not trying to keep up with progression by doing it, I simply want to experience it and if there is good stuff for glamour, I want to get that too. I think it has been changed. Certainly Echo was added to some of the Coil turns, and there were mechanical nerfs to them as well, along with putting them in duty finder without the loot lockouts and static requirement. It would have been better to make an 'easy' version without the loot perhaps, but given the very strong arguments among players about end-game raids being available and accessible to 'casual' player even that might not be well received.

I can go on.

I'm sure that you can, and it might even be an interesting exchange in views. But, if you have made your mind up on how you feel and view the game, I doubt our discussion will sway you. I'd just like to say that there are at least two sides to every story - so to speak. Each to their own though.

[Kosmos992k]

So you propose that existing people basically shut up and leave, for a chance to trick new people to into the game? They are adults or teenagers, they can read the arguments and make their own decision.

That's like me complaining about the quality of food at my own restaraunt. Instead of letting the boss know the cake taste like poop. You'd rather I shut up and leave so new people who don't know any better will still eat it.

As I said;

Players who are unhappy always have that choice, but talking the game down and being overtly and overly critical of the game and developers is completely unhelpful. Honestly, if players who feel so negatively toward the game, because of burnout or whatever other reason, would take a break, and take their negativity with them, we would all be better off. And I include those players in that 'all'.

It's just not good for the players themselves to constantly be so negative about things, it affects them on a personal level too. It would be healthier for them to recognize that they need a break, and take one. Negative thinking can be like a cancer and spread to others. So folks with that attitude taking a break is helpful both to them, and the players around them.

Please note I am NOT telling people to leave the game. One of my best friends in he game is going to sub for a month every 40-odd days for the next 9-12 months because he knows he's burned out on it. But he will be back, and he will be better for it.

PS since you want to talk about a restaurant, I'll repost something I posted to another topic;

it's like that with everything in life. I might see a movie several times, but not consecutively. I might eat a Big-Mac for lunch today, but I'm not going to eat nothing but Big Macs for the next month, I'd get bored long before the month was out.

In everything variety is the spice of life and a balanced diet is important. Apply that principle to the way you play games and I think you will find the games themselves not only last longer, but are far more enjoyable.

[Critical-Limit]

so good, have all the likes!

I've never been convinced that Komso isn't a troll. I've never seen such a high level white knight.

@Kosmo one last thing. Yes negativity can hurt the game sales, but negativity also helps improve quality. Either SE adapts to the complaints or they ride this formula until it runs out of gas.

[Kosmos992k]

I've never been convinced that Komso isn't a troll. I've never seen such a high level white knight.

@Kosmo one last thing. Yes negativity can hurt the game sales, but negativity also helps improve quality. Either SE adapts to the complaints or they ride this formula until it runs out of gas.

So, people who disagree with an overly negative view of things are White Knights and trolls? Perhaps that speaks more of your own bias than of their opinion?

As for your comment about negativity helping improve quality, that's just not true - in my experience. Straight up Negativity is not helpful.

[Critical-Limit]

So, people who disagree with an overly negative view of things are White Knights.

No, a white knight is someone who protects a bad practice and tells the players to adapt to the companies rather than the companies adapt to their players.

Negativity does help. It can kill but it can also help.

By making all these "negative posts" at the very best, SE will take note that there is a decent number of people who found this as bad content.

By being overwhelmingly positive like you. They will think it's great and will rinse repeat formula all over again.

I think you're a troll not because you disagree with me. Simply because how controversial you try to be against what people are feeling.