Atmas.

[Zojha]

Or would you be saying that perhaps you'd engage in the atma grind purely for the sake of doing so?

Frankly: No. Because that grind isn't fun. But for most of my games on Steam, my ultimate reward is to make everything I did obsolete as the credits roll down and the game ends. And frankly, I still try to reach the end, despite knowing this. Because it's fun.

And that is the core issue IMO. The problem is not with the rewards, the problem is that the way isn't fun. Don't kid yourself thinking you "love" doing something if you only do it for an end goal or reward.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

And that is the core issue IMO. The problem is not with the rewards, the problem is that the way isn't fun. Don't kid yourself thinking you "love" doing something if you only do it for an end goal or reward.

I think you may have misinterpreted me there. And to be honest, I raid because I actually do love raiding. The rewards just give me more reason to stick with it. Even if they are ultimately eclipsed or perhaps guaranteed to be inferior once we reach the end of the road. Sometimes it's more headache than fun, but overall the challenge, or rather learning how to and ultimately overcoming the challenge is where the fun comes in. I think it's safe to say if it's not fun, people probably don't love it. We at least agree that it's not fun, and that's fine. More than anything, I'd like SE to come to understand that and perhaps revisit their approach in the future.

Time will tell.

[Zojha]

I think you may have misinterpreted me there.

Quite possible. To me, it's just important to note that people not doing a piece of content is not an issue with the rewards of said content, but rather the content itself. "Fun" is an intrinsic reward after all and the need for a different reward only arises if "fun" is absent. I thus get easily triggered when people talk about rewards not being "worth it".