Atmas.

[Harz]

I can't.

Fate grinding physically puts me to sleep after about 45 minutes. It's the only thing I utterly cannot stand doing, I honestly find fishing more engaging and fun than bloody fates.

[HorseBoots]

i rather have something incredibly hard to clear and have a 100% drop at least its challenging and you have FUN with it .

So uh... wouldn't you just go ahead and raid then? I haven't gotten the chance to see the secondary stats on these new relics but I DO know that about 11 of the 13 Gordian weapons are perfect itemization.

[Miscreant]

snip

I kind of feel like 3.0 has been the beginning of the end for a lot of players, the Devs seem to have taken the approach that content that takes time is better than content that is enjoyable. We play this game for fun, since when was a mindless grind fun? It's more like a chore...

The early stages of the old relic were really fun, I stopped the original at Atma back then too. I'm not sure if I will even bother starting this chain though, I'm in the last % A4S and as it stands I think I'm going to unsub after I've finished Savage. I used to eat sleep and breath this game, I really loved it, but since 3.0 we have had one fun Trial (Thordan) and two fun raid fights (A1 & A3). In 2.0 there wasn't a single Turn in Coil I didn't like and the only Primal I didn't like was Mog Ex.

[HakuroDK]

[meldon90]

No relic for me, this luminous crystal thing is just insane.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

So uh... wouldn't you just go ahead and raid then? I haven't gotten the chance to see the secondary stats on these new relics but I DO know that about 11 of the 13 Gordian weapons are perfect itemization.

That's a great idea except for the fact that raiders must ultimately accept that whatever weapons you might acquire through your challenging content will still be inferior to something aquired through easier-if-not-longer means.

If I offered you a large sum of money to get to the top of a mountain, would you climb it or walk the trail? And what if I told you you'll get a slightly larger sum for walking the trail instead of climbing. . . At that point, even someone who loves mountain climbing would be less inclined to bother.

[Zojha]

If I offered you a large sum of money to get to the top of a mountain, would you climb it or walk the trail? And what if I told you you'll get a slightly larger sum for walking the trail instead of climbing. . . At that point, even someone who loves mountain climbing would be less inclined to bother.

So the best option would be to not offer money at all, because then the mountain climber would climb for the heck of it anyway because he loves it, while the other person who didn't want to go up that mountain in the first place just stays where he enjoys himself more.

[DukeGr]

This game is what i would call an MMO cultural salad. They have managed to incorporate Korean grind fests into a Japanese WoW clone. Kudos to them i guess bad luck for us i assume.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

So the best option would be to not offer money at all, because then the mountain climber would climb for the heck of it anyway because he loves it, while the other person who didn't want to go up that mountain in the first place just stays where he enjoys himself more.

Heard that response before, but let's not kid ourselves. This is an MMO; regardless of how much you love to do anything - raiding, grinding, etc. - you do it with an end goal or reward in mind. And the mountain in this case is the path to said reward, if perhaps you missed that in the metaphor. So staying put does someone no good. Or would you be saying that perhaps you'd engage in the atma grind purely for the sake of doing so? No reward, no weapon, just a grind. Am I to understand that's what you're saying there?

As it stands, by now I'm well aware that I can't speak my peace (or lack thereof) regarding relics, new or old without stepping on toes. So I will choose silence, if only once I say this:

I (and plenty others) are WELL aware, SE, that you have simply rehashed a type of content that was very ill met the first time. Perhaps you did it with good intent, perhaps you simply did it to create a time sink. But many of us cannot and will not ignore the fact that you have chosen to retrace your steps and ultimately void an opportunity to try to do something better or more creative. Personally speaking, whether I ever complete this particular relic within the 3.0 patch cycle or not, I will no longer show any interest in relic content in future expansions. My faith in your decisions regarding such content is well in question, if at all present, and so long as alternatives are available, I will choose the alternatives without second thought. If ever alternatives are no longer available, I would then consider whether I might continue to further play this game I enjoy.

[Zojha]

Or would you be saying that perhaps you'd engage in the atma grind purely for the sake of doing so?

Frankly: No. Because that grind isn't fun. But for most of my games on Steam, my ultimate reward is to make everything I did obsolete as the credits roll down and the game ends. And frankly, I still try to reach the end, despite knowing this. Because it's fun.

And that is the core issue IMO. The problem is not with the rewards, the problem is that the way isn't fun. Don't kid yourself thinking you "love" doing something if you only do it for an end goal or reward.