Praetorium warning for new players?

[Aryujin]

I'm cross-posting this suggestion that I made in a Reddit thread, because these types of "I didn't get to enjoy the Praetorium" threads pop up often there...

At the end of 2.55's MSQ there's a warning message that pops up before certain cutscene chains - "This will take a while to view, set aside some time first."

I'm not sure why they haven't added a similar warning for Prae (CM also, to a much lesser extent.) Something like "Consider making a group using the Party Finder in order to properly enjoy cutscenes."

Basically, it might help new players get some clue as to what they're in for - not everyone has an attentive FC or friends that'll warn them about this kind of thing ahead of time. You're not limiting new players from using the Duty Finder if they want to, but you're making them aware of the potential risks in doing so.

'Reply' edit as of 12/14/15:

Hey, wow. I'm surprised this got as many views and as much discussion entailing it as it did. I want to start off by thanking everyone who has taken part in the discussion about this, no matter which side you're on. Dialogue is ultimately the only way to get something like this attention, and it might even open the door to potential fixes.

I want to take the time and reply to some of the common themes I've seen through thread posts - I won't be replying to any one person individually, both because I'm not looking to start any arguments and because multiple people have echoed these themes throughout their posts. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, so here are some of my own:

Adjusting the current system/adding NPC helpers to these dungeons

Someone already said it, but my suggestion was intended to be low-impact on SE's workload if they took something like it up. To actually change the entire way the system works to accommodate this (or these) dungeons would take time away from a team that, frankly, seems like they already work themselves to the bone to provide what content we get on a patch-by-patch basis. However, I figure if they can take the time to code a new animation for Fenrir to fly, they could easily lob in a pop-up message after the "Praetorium Unlocked" eyecatch.

Stifling speedrunning/Negative punishment for speedrunners

While I agree that maybe certain speedrunning attitudes ought to be punished (not the ones who are just looking to get their tomes, but the ones who actively attempt to ruin a new player's experience in the dungeon, even if they're just hanging back and watching cutscenes) ultimately what'll happen is this will turn into another 'vanilla' Pharos Sirius situation. Back in 2.1 when we had 5 dungeons on our highest roulette, PS being one of them, players would immediately drop out of PS when they saw it load. They didn't want to commit the time because PS in it's original form had a slight difficulty to it (mainly dependent on your brain cell count) and it took time. It wasn't cost-effective nor worth the effort that seemed to be required, and so players left. This is what would happen if something like this were implemented into Prae, or there was a roulette of some sort keyed for this - when players saw the dungeon load, they would leave. Unfortunately, gating cutscenes/punishing tomerunners is only going to lead to abandonment of the instance, which will make queue times even worse.

The content is old/the time for a fix for this is passed

Yes, Praetorium has been out for two and a half years at this point. I do feel that SE ought to have attempted harder to nip this in the bud when this type of thing was coming to light, but there's only so much you can do in the short-term basis, and a long-term fix as stated above would have taken time and resources away from current content in order to implement. However, I disagree with the notion that this isn't relevant any longer. Literally every player HAS to do this dungeon, even to this day. This argument might hold water if this were in reference to something optional or something dead, like the Crystal Towers. Ultimately, new players today still have to progress the 2.0 story, and therefore will eventually be faced with this dungeon in this exact situation. That has not changed since launch, and it will not likely ever change unless SE makes story progression for 4.0 content optional. I said it in my original post, but these posts still crop up regularly on the XIV subreddit. That's proof positive enough that this issue is ongoing and not simply irrelevant to today's playerbase.

Just go in unsynced/use an FC

That's ultimately the whole point of this suggestion, if you think about it. If you (and I'm assuming the you reading this are a helpful soul) were reading the PF and you saw an obviously new player advertising positions for a Praetorum run with 8 slots open on the PF, would you maybe send them a tell saying "Hey, we can do this with like 2 or 3 people if we go in unsynced"? As it stands right now, new players are given no clue as to how the PF might be utilized except from a very early aside at level 16-17 or so saying that the PF was unlocked. If I were a new player looking at the PF, all I'd see were what is there now - a bunch of Savage static posts, Thordan EX and Unsynced Primal/Coil pony/glamour farms. I would assume that the PF was not something I could use - that it was for endgame. A new player is only going to take confidence in what they've been using - the duty finder, which until CM really isn't a problem. In no dungeon prior to CM is there any instance where a new player is going to be left behind by their group or given flak for viewing cutscenes, unless they've happened to meet someone actively trolling. This can easily be remedied by a newer player being given some sort of warning or encouragement that they too can use the Party Finder. As for the posts about people who have helped new players run this via their FC or because they're friends...that's absolutely great, and I very much know they appreciated your time taken to do so for them. But we cannot guarantee that everyone has those friends, or has that helpful FC - in fact, many new players can easily get snapped up into larger FCs that are looking for the numbers. In those cases, it's very rare that someone is going to take the time to lend them a hand. That's why I think it'd be best if SE just coded a simple message to throw the new players a bone in this particular instance. Nothing complex, nothing involved, just an inkling as to what they might be facing in this circumstance.

Again, I want to thank everyone for taking the time to voice their opinion no matter whether you agree or disagree, or if you had an alternate suggestion. The main prompt for this post has been the number of times I've seen those frustrated threads by new players that simply were unaware of what Prae was going to be like for them. A good portion of those threads have even voiced such disgust with the game's community that they feel as though they want to quit - I'd like to think that most people are able to talk them out of this, but it's also very possible that some people's Prae has been toxic enough for them that they've quit the game over it. It's impossible at this point to adjust player's overall mindsets regarding Prae and cutscenes, and it's implausible to suggest SE go back and change the system to make it happen. Maybe if that content where they were saying you could take NPCs into older dungeons ever does come to light, maybe then this will stop being a problem and newer players can go through their first Praetoriums in peace. Until such a time, however, a simple message might help salve the situation.

[Gilraen]

It's not Square's fault that there's jerks in this game. I know what you mean, though. A while back I did a Praetorium run and waited outside of the bosses for players watching cutscenes. First boss people were a little patient. Everything after that all patience went out the window with the jerks. Sad considering 3 people in the party were watching cutscenes. At the hackwrench boss only 5 people were fighting, I was waiting for two people watching cutscenes (a healer and a tank, by the way). Apparently there were enough jerks in the party to get me kicked because I waited for the new players instead of fight the boss. But, I stand by what I said in that and every other dungeon I've been in, main story or side. Watch the cutscenes, that is the only time you can get the full experience of them. No, really, there's a thread around somewhere that say cutscenes in the inn don't have the little touches you normally get.

[Laerune]

It's not Square's fault that there's jerks in this game.

True its not Square Enix's fault, at launch, but now in 3.0...

I do not know how Praetorium is run on the Japanese servers, but everyone here has a idea of what newcomers experience on the western servers. SE did not know when they released the game, but two years later and we are still seeing threads where newcomers complain that a climactic moment in the game got ruined for them, because they were stuck in a cutscene and the bosses were killed or worse kicked out of the group, because they were in a cutscene too long. SE should know about this issue and if they do not know, then the community representives are doing something very wrong on the US/EU section of the forum.

Aryujin, I like your suggestion, but I fear majority of players will ignore it and join via the Duty Finder. A possible suggestion could be to remove the need to have a party and let the other scions or mercs join the warrior of light in the Praetorium. This should give the player the option to enjoy the cutscenes in their own time and there is no gain like a loot, because no loot is dropped. Afcourse one can not do the roulette with npcs.

[Lambdafish]

It's not Square's fault that there's jerks in this game.

This is correct, but it is Square's responsibility to provide an environment where new players are not at the mercy of jerks. While this idea wont fix the problem, it is definitely something that I would like to see implemented.

A possible suggestion could be to remove the need to have a party and let the other scions or mercs join the warrior of light in the Praetorium.

Unfortunately, while a nice suggestion, this will never ever happen because that takes far too much coding for old content, and they wont waste the precious few development resources that they have on this, when it could go towards current content.

[Solarra]

it is Square's responsibility to provide an environment where new players are not at the mercy of jerks

Agreed.
This would be better than nothing, though.
PF is mentioned once as people level (if I remember right). I didn't use it at all until I was level 52. DF was pushed so hard, I simply forgot there was an alternative.

[RyuRoots]

I actually recently 2-man'd Cape Westwind, Castrum Meridianum, and Praetorium with a friend since they never really got to enjoy them the first time through. It was a lot of fun, though the fact that they were pressured into ignoring everything during the dungeon because of impatient goons is both sad and less than surprising. I think SE immensely overestimated the community by presuming that most random parties would be kind to newbies. I think OP's suggestion is a good one. Even if players ignore it and get trouble from jerks, at the very least you get a warning which is more than what they're doing about it now (which is literally nothing).

[Blood-Aki]

This is correct, but it is Square's responsibility to provide an environment where new players are not at the mercy of jerks. While this idea wont fix the problem, it is definitely something that I would like to see implemented.

Jerks will be jerks, Regardless of what content or enviroment Square puts out, There will always be people who think you are on their time and abide by their rules.

[Gilraen]

Jerks will be jerks, Regardless of what content or enviroment Square puts out, There will always be people who think you are on their time and abide by their rules.

Quite right. What needs to be done is, instead of catering to the jerks and again making new players suffer long queues (we have Roulette to help new players, after all), we need to, as a community, treat jerks like the jerks they are. We are better than this, we should show it. This is a community problem, it needs a community solution.

[Zojha]

This is a community problem, it needs a community solution.

Heh, good luck with that. Next you'll be trying to convince crafters and gatherers to sell only at minimal profit to make goods more accessible to newbies.

[Gilraen]

Heh, good luck with that. Next you'll be trying to convince crafters and gatherers to sell only at minimal profit to make goods more accessible to newbies.

Nah, that's wishful thinking. I tried something similar in XI, but crafting takes soo much time and costs soo much gil. Even here it's expensive and time consuming. New players want cheap gear, they have the same avenues and resources as crafters with the benefit of not having to worry about jerks telling them to craft faster.