Can a ninja explain this to me

[ruskie]

Basically what others have said, it's so that you can get TA up in the first 15s when everyone's buffs are still ticking. A ~600sks bard will likely be doing a double empy opener with the second empy being barraged and that's at ~15s in just before the buffs fall off. So putting it up at ~5s is ideal overall to help boost up everyone.

[softestPAWSintheEAST]

That's fine and all, but please elaborate on the reasons. Yes I'm pretty stubborn here, but I just fail to understand why you would prefer something that's proven to be mathematically worse, while not having any other kind of benefit in exchange. I just don't get it.

as stated by houston, i like that it gets buffed by b4b/ir/pot/lit/foes. ive hit like 2000+ suitons before. im sure in the long run it really doesn't matter and it all evens out anyways

its really just personal preference and what im used to i guess

[Xenon_S]

count-ins are usually preferred for raid scenario
mch needs to quick reload + get the buffs out a few seconds before pull
mnk needs to form shift and chakra
and others too

for us NINs, as others have said before me, we want the huton buff to be up first, and we need a fresh ninjutsu for suiton->TA very early in the fight
its either suiton on pull vs suiton mid rotation, this has to be done before the 4th GCD regardless, so a 15-20s count in is necessary

the standard NIN opener will have TA up after our 4th GCD, which is roughly 8-9 seconds into the fight

as for the 15-20s prepull, i find it easier to make the macro myself, include shade walker and smokescreen into it for ease of management

[Greywolfamakir]

I said I like it, not that I prefer it. I like opening with suiton.

If you wanna know the actual benefits of suiton after DE/AE its that suiton gets fully buffed by B4B/IR/Pot(Not sure if Foe is on target if suiton is first attack). Not that I'd weigh it over opening with suiton, but you asked.

Suiton should be used asap, but TA should be used after 3-5 GCDs because DPS jobs need around 3-5 GCDs of preparation during opener, I mean:
MNK; 5 GCDs for full buffed. (3xGS + DK + TW)
DRG; 3 GCDs for full buffed (Heavy Trust + Disembowel)
BLM; 3 GCDs preparation for Fire IV spam.
SMN: More than 5 GCDs for Trance.
BRD; 3 GCDs preparation (Straigh Shot + 2xDoTs)
MCH; 3 GCDs preparation for Wildfire opener (Hot Shot + Lead Shot + Split Shot)
WAR: 3 GCDs for full buffed (Maim + Storm Eye)

There is no reason for use TA before 3-4 GCDs.

[Callback]

Suiton should be used asap, but TA should be used after 3-5 GCDs because DPS jobs need around 3-5 GCDs of preparation during opener, I mean:
MNK; 5 GCDs for full buffed. (3xGS + DK + TW)
DRG; 3 GCDs for full buffed (Heavy Trust + Disembowel)
BLM; 3 GCDs preparation for Fire IV spam.
SMN: More than 5 GCDs for Trance.
BRD; 3 GCDs preparation (Straigh Shot + 2xDoTs)
MCH; 3 GCDs preparation for Wildfire opener (Hot Shot + Lead Shot + Split Shot)
WAR: 3 GCDs for full buffed (Maim + Storm Eye)

There is no reason for use TA before 3-4 GCDs.

In his defense, the Suiton opener still has you doing GCDx4 while holding the buff to enable TA before you actually pop it.

[Houston009]

Suiton should be used asap, but TA should be used after 3-5 GCDs because DPS jobs need around 3-5 GCDs of preparation during opener, I mean:
MNK; 5 GCDs for full buffed. (3xGS + DK + TW)
DRG; 3 GCDs for full buffed (Heavy Trust + Disembowel)
BLM; 3 GCDs preparation for Fire IV spam.
SMN: More than 5 GCDs for Trance.
BRD; 3 GCDs preparation (Straigh Shot + 2xDoTs)
MCH; 3 GCDs preparation for Wildfire opener (Hot Shot + Lead Shot + Split Shot)
WAR: 3 GCDs for full buffed (Maim + Storm Eye)

There is no reason for use TA before 3-4 GCDs.

Where in my post did i say use TA before 3-4 GCDs, please read. I feel like you are quoting the wrong person. /sigh

I don't need a defense when this guy blatantly does not know that Suiton is a 10s buff and that Trick Attack can be used at anytime during that duration. (If its off CD).

[CookieMonsta]

I was told by a few static mates that ninjas require a fifteen second prep macro to get completely ready. I'm sure they're right (they are normally), but it seems like an awful long amount of time to setup.

What in the ninja opener requires this much preparation?

If you reckon that's long, wait until you see the MCH one.

[MrCookTM]

If you reckon that's long, wait until you see the MCH one.

This. ^^ Also mnk has 15 seconds too if he opens in coerl form (which most mnk's do), bard has 12 seconds. So yeah, it's actually pretty common.

[Jim_Berry]

Meh! I don't bother waiting. Once Huton is up, I'm ready. Heck, some WARs MT would ask me to actually pull.

[Gogomeowmeow]

Ninjas ask because they will have as much huton up as possible with mudra ready to immediately open with trick attack close toward or at beginning. They can immediately refresh with kassatu and have a crit jutsu choice ready and have kassatu start its cooldown. Hitting all the cds goes more smoothly for ninjas that way.