Why does Clemency get interrupted? And why does Sword/Shield Oath reset combo?

[winsock]

What nonsense is that ?

I'll reword just for you Reynhart!
To avoid a dps penalty via a combo break, PLD needs to anticipate a max of 3 cooldowns. If you don't bother with anticipating, you *might* take a dps hit from a combo break.

This is as opposed to warrior who needs to anticipate a max of 8 cooldowns in advance to avoid a dps loss, or potentially death from a mitigation loss.

[AzureFlare]

Stuff

Since this post is more oriented to players as a whole than tanking, I'd like to add most jobs got more complex than before and small, split-second mistakes can be very punishing for some (Enochian, BotD, DWT), where an error can lead to pretty substantial DPS losses. On top of that, a 100% scripted, time-lined borefest that needs to be executed pretty perfectly (90% with plenty of critical points would come close to perfect, and most people consider Alexander Savage to be exactly this as far as I can tell) is a recipe for disaster and at that point the main attribute contributing to performance isn't really being fast and furious, but rather being diligent and steadfast. Now you'd need 8 people to be able to do that + not have dumb stuff like lag or whatever occur (yes, even in 2015 and soon 2016 this stuff still plagues us).

[Reynhart]

To avoid a dps penalty via a combo break, PLD needs to anticipate a max of 3 cooldowns. If you don't bother with anticipating, you *might* take a dps hit from a combo break.

Ok, then let me explain.
By switching to Sword Oath and switching back to Shield Oath, you "waste" 2 GCD for 0 damage. So, in order to gain DPS from stance dancing, you need time to do at least 2 full combos before switching back.
Which means...oh, look, 8 GCDs.

And Defiance is still offering its most useful benefit even after you take a hit, by increasing cure received. It means that PLD is more penalized for being in the wrong stance when the hit occurs.

[kensatsu]

Only get the Shield Oath "off" is not better realy to swap for only 2 full combo ?
sword oat only buff the auto attack , right ?

it's right the war can buff heal so, what he loose by swaping he get it by heal before swaping again, actualy i use only bloodbath myself, buffed with berserk, i tested, i got healed for at least 10K hp in delivrance, tank to the triple felt cleave. (the synergy of the skill)

A pld can do the trick by using fight on flight, blood bath but... you will heal 3K5 to 4k5 ... it's hard to compensate the loss of defence with kill a other defence CD when you want to swap with the PLD, so i don't play pld enough atm, so i can't figure myself if i would i will raid with my pld, can i count to kill one CD+bloodbath+fight on flight to dps ?
The CD from PLD is also often long cooldown.

the OP also tell :why the pld get interupted when casting Clemency: the cast of magic in this game always get interupted by heavy damage, i don't know personaly the minimum damage a pld have to take to get interupted someone know ?

[winsock]

Ok, then let me explain.
By switching to Sword Oath and switching back to Shield Oath, you "waste" 2 GCD for 0 damage. So, in order to gain DPS from stance dancing, you need time to do at least 2 full combos before switching back.
Which means...oh, look, 8 GCDs.

You're off topic. You're arguing on vs off gcd
I was talking about the effect of the stance change resetting the combo...
you know.. like... the thread title..
That is why you're confused.
It's 3 tops

[Reynhart]

I was talking about the effect of the stance change resetting the combo...

No. The fact that stance dance breaks combo is exactly why you need to do 2 full combos before switching back.

For example, let's take a RoH combo and a fast blade, for a total of 4 GCD. In ShO, you get, potency-wise : (150+200+260+150)*0.8 = 608 potency
Now, if you SwO just after the first Fast Blade, you get 150*0.8+0+200+260+100 from 2 AA in SwO = 680 potency

If you have to put back Shield Oath, you'd need about 7 GCD to still gain DPS by stance dancing, while still switching back to Shield Oath mid-combo.

If I were to argue only about the GCD vs OffGCD, I would have said that by "wasting" 2 GCD, you'd also let Goring Blade and/or Strength down wear off, thus losing either some damage or some mitigation...or both.

[Brian_]

I think this entire comparison is incredibly unfair to PLD. As someone that plays both WAR and PLD, you basically took the non-existent, "I'm not playing my class correctly," scenario for WAR.

The normal scenario is you FC after a Heavy Swing or in the middle of Maim / SE / SP / SS / BB. You should never be FCing before a HS. If you're planning to mitigate an incoming tank buster, that means you will probably be using Vengeance which grants 1 stack. You also have Raw Intuition, Berserk, and Infuriate. So, if you FC at a bad time, it takes you a minimum of 0 GCDs to IB. Without Infuriate, it takes you a minimum of 2 GCDs. With just Berserk, RI or Vengeance, it takes you 5-6 GCDs. At most, it's 7 GCDs, never 8.

TBF, using some of those CDs to cover for a mistake is a DPS loss, too.

On PLD, you always need to plan ahead by 3 GCDs (the 3 combo GCDs) to not break a combo. If we're talking strictly about DPS loss, it's much more punishing than WAR. Losing a GCD while in ShO is something like a ~200 potency loss. Losing a GCD while in SwO is something like a ~300 potency loss. SwO is something like a ~100 potency gain per combo GCD. I think the gain in oGCDs is something like ~15 potency per GCD. You need to make up for ~500 lost potency through SwO uptime when stance dancing. To put that in perspective, if you somehow mess up so badly that you don't spend a single GCD in SwO, you basically just lost a Fell Cleave worth of potency.

[winsock]

snip

No, we're not talking about the same thing.
You're talking about the minimum commitment in order for a stance change to be worth it, I'm talking about avoiding dps loss from a combo break. Minimum commitment is a conversation to compare WAR stance cooldowns.

3

[kensatsu]

the weird thing, is Tank pos swap on War is CD, and on Dark/PLD it's GCD. GCD cancel combo but
Inner beast is GCD but it don't cancel combo.
It's a weird logic. Nobody can understand why...
I think also if the PLD should be the best denfense Tank, it can be true but the difference is maybe a little too light. because against magic the defense advantage is killed.
it make actualy a good comp to be WAR/PLD against physic boss, and War/dark against magic boss

[Reynhart]

the weird thing, is Tank pos swap on War is CD, and on Dark/PLD it's GCD. GCD cancel combo but Inner beast is GCD but it don't cancel combo.

Flash doesn't, Unleash doesn't, Clemency does...

It's obvious they pick that at random...