Class direction for 'support-oriented' classes (BRD, MCH, AST)?

[Connor]

I can't remember which one, but in a Live Letter from the Producer, Yoshi-P explicitly said that they will not ever add full support classes to the game. It's really sad and I'd love them to reconsider, but when we're considering how these jobs will be developed in future we should assume for now they'll be tank / dps / healer with support elements rather than full support.

[Connor]

Machinist stuff

Like I said in the 'BRD broke etc' thread, I do agree that regen abilities feel lacklustre as they don't see much use in a lot of content. I've always seen Machinist as being more focused on providing support through debuffing the enemy. I think building on this would be cool and help keep it somewhat different from Bards. Something like a turret focused on shielding is a great idea. Hypercharge could even have it provide a small regen to party members in range for its duration on top of damage reduction. Or they could add an ability that 'explodes' the turret and has it provide a debuff to enemies in range (maybe damage down or vulnerability up, maybe even something entirely unique?).

[nickx]

How do you think they'll develop these classes in future, and which direction would you like them to go? Solely dps / healing? Utility centered? Or a balance of the two?

For Bards, I think I'd like to see us be given more utility, as we don't have a stun/heavy/knockback (minus the pvp ability) like our Machinist friends. Perhaps more emphasis on our songs, like a temporary in-combat Swiftsong, or a song that applies a temporary heavy to enemies as they approach your character, etc.

[Ashkendor]

Understandable, but I could see 1 support role in each party which could essentially empower the 3 other dps in the group to increase their damage significantly, or apply vulnerabilities to the boss, etc. A support job could even synergize with other jobs with their skills, such as having the ability to empower ninjutsu of ninjas, empower the jumps of dragoons, etc. I know it would require some balancing and job tweaks, but I personally would find it more interesting.

The problem with full support jobs is they almost always end up being either required or useless. It's really difficult to hit that middle ground where it's useful enough to take with you (i.e. it makes up for the loss of the 4th DPS) but not overpowered.

They've flat-out said in one of the Live Letters that there are no plans to include Support classes for this reason.

Right now we've got the MP/TP regen, and a couple of weak debuffs, but that's it. The regen in particular is rather useless if you have a competent group outside of doing chain-pulls or Savage, because practically every class has some skill they can use to regen their primary resource on their own.

If doing casual content in a casual manner (i.e. not speed pulling) is the bar to measure skill usefulness by, 90% of my kit is useless.

[Calypsx]

There is nothing wrong with a support role in this type of mmorpg. Rift has shown you can do it just fine, bard is super fun in that game.

It would require tweaking the current system quite a lot to implement though, that's where the actual problem lies. It all depends on if the dev wants to put the time into working it into the system but it's certainly not impossible.

[Connor]

For Bards, I think I'd like to see us be given more utility, as we don't have a stun/heavy/knockback (minus the pvp ability) like our Machinist friends. Perhaps more emphasis on our songs, like a temporary in-combat Swiftsong, or a song that applies a temporary heavy to enemies as they approach your character, etc.

I agree, I'd love to see more songs/utility too. It's actually weird you mention stuns etc. I was just thinking that Bard is the only physical damage dealer that doesn't possess a stun. Given how powerful it was at release though, I can kinda see why. I'd love to see a debuff song that deals damage, as I think it kinda fits with Bard being both dps and support. Maybe one, like you said, that deals and applies heavy to the target or maybe stuns them. I'd like to see more songs that focus on buffing the party for Bard, in line with the more 'traditional' Bard role.

Maybe a regen or damage down song that's applied the same as the Warden's Paean (3 second cast times make it slightly less abusable since Bards are still required to deal damage) with a base MP cost. A Raise song would be cool too, though that would probably be too powerful for Bard.
As a side note, I'd love to see a way for Bards to restore their MP. Naturally, Bards will still be getting new dps-related skills/traits so they could possibly provide this. And Machinist too, though I imagine they'll continue to rely less on MP than Bards to access their utility.

[Kemonologist]

In this game, the support who can bring DPS to party must trade their DPS or Healing potential for other member DPS.
e.g.
- MNK have highest raw DPS because they don't have any DPS support to party.
- DRG can increase party DPS from critical buff and piercing resistance debuff but this buff and debuff have limitation for increase DPS unlike NIN. Then, they get higher raw DPS more than NIN but lower than MNK.
- NIN have lowest raw DPS in melee because they can increase DPS for any job from Trick Attack and slashing resistance debuff that guarantee DPS increasing for 2 Tank. It is flexible more than DRG.
- BRD and MCH have buff for increase DPS to large member in party. When MCH can increase both physical and magical, they have short duration and potency lower than BRD who can increase only magical. TP and MP regeneration are indirect DPS increasing too (More resource, More damage). But their ranged attack and mobility make them must lower their DSP too. From that two reason, it make them have lowest DPS unlike NIN who have lose DPS from their flexible DPS utility only.
- Same with healer, WHM have best potential in healing because they don't have any party buff (except MND buff) when SCH and AST can bring DPS to party. SCH and AST must trade their raw healing potential with their DPS buff for party (SCH must trade their MND stat for pet too, They have lowest MND) when AST must trade their own DPS more than SCH because they have various buff effect more than SCH. However, they still get some unique mechanic in healing instead.

[NoahArks]

I'll be honest. I think they should add a support role. I don't care what people think, if they're support classes then throw in a support role, don't throw them under dps.

[Archaell]

10% dps boost for the physical range jobs when there are two in a group would be a good start. I would like to see groups with both MCH and BRD viable.

[Gamer3427]

10% dps boost for the physical range jobs when there are two in a group would be a good start. I would like to see groups with both MCH and BRD viable.

Well, they are in a manner, though more so in eight player content with at least two casters. Namely because you can keep Foes up for a greatly extended period of time by having the MCH use MP regen, and that extended time on Foes means those casters can do a lot more damage, while the MCH switches turrets for their Hypercharged burst. Still not perfect by any means, but viable in a manner. It gets even more so if you have an AST feeding an MP card to the MCH or BRD every now and then. Came relatively close to clearing Faust in A1S using this method even with a relatively inexperienced Bard, only one caster, and a NIN who was pretty poor and who didn't have B4B.....

EDIT: In terms of non Savage content, I run MCH, (or occasionally SCH), and my friend runs BRD, (different friend than the BRD mentioned above), and we've never even come close to having trouble meeting DPS checks, though while I consider myself to be a fairly skilled MCH, she's an even better BRD.....