Class direction for 'support-oriented' classes (BRD, MCH, AST)?

[Connor]

So maybe it's still a bit early for discussion on this, but what direction do people think they'll take classes that lean towards support in future (e.g 4.0?).

For example, in 3.0 Bard gets almost exclusively dps-related skills (with Paean being the exception). Conversely, Astrologian gets mainly utility-related skills with two extra nukes. Machinist is pretty balanced between both dps and utility.

How do you think they'll develop these classes in future, and which direction would you like them to go? Solely dps / healing? Utility centered? Or a balance of the two?

(As an aside, I've left Paladin out of the title, but technically - at least in the developer's eyes - I think that it belongs to this group. Feel free to comment on Paladins if you wish!)

[AskaRay]

Well honestly I still think they should just do traits in 4.0, so that means no new songs

But I could do with some more support songs... I don't think they're going to do many, though. Oh well.

[nickx]

Incoming backlash, but I'd love to see an actual support role be added to the game someday (4.0 or beyond) to change things up a bit and add some more variety/flavor to the game. Bards/Machinists could be given more support/utility, and for those that hate the idea of being a support role, the Ranger job could be added as a pure dps role. I understand that they'd have to go back and tweak things around in order to do this, but I think it'd be an ideal change for a future expansion.

[Kemonologist]

Do same other MMORPG give less new skill more than now and develop job trait system for improve old skill mechanic instead. When you pass level 60 cap you will get passive trait that will improve unique mechanics for each job same as WoW mastery and talent or GW2 trait system. I suggest WoW mastery, the passive ability that offering benefits appropriate to that spec's role and abilities by calculated from Mastery status such as Discipline Priest (Barrier Healer) increase increases size of absorbs, and to a lesser extent heals when Restoration Shaman get passive ability to increases healing done to targets on low health. However, they can use this ability when pass level 80 only. This will improve. Dev might revamp Det stat for do something like this. I think Det ability is to flat now. It only increase direct damage and healing same as Main stat. I think it should have some unique effect like Critical and Skill/Spell Speed. If we have this mastery in FF14, we can make det increse % of absorption for SCH, increase % of direct healing and HoT effect for WHM. For AST might be use WoW shaman mastery (that like Essential Dignity effect) plus increase duration of their buff.

Ref
WoW Mastery system
WoW Talent system
GW2 Trait

[Connor]

snip

Whilst I would love the same, I think it's clear this won't ever happen. That doesn't automatically mean they can't have current / future classes have a strong support/utility aspect though

[nickx]

Do same other MMORPG give less new skill more than now and develop job trait system for improve old skill mechanic instead.

This is also very true. We have an overflow of abilities now, adding even more in the next expansion will be a problem. They'll need to come up with a way to avoid adding more abilities by perhaps developing some sort of new system that alters the abilities we have now or come up with something different.

[Connor]

traits

This would solve a lot of problems regarding skill bloat and stuff, but I imagine it would simply be a vertical 'you get this trait or nothing' system as opposed to 'you can go this way or that way'. I don't know much about other MMO's and how efficient they are, but skill trees could be an interesting idea (Bards can split into dps or support, Paladins go defensive / utility or offensive). The main problem there is that it'd be incredibly difficult (maybe even impossible?) to balance them in such a way that you don't get 'you must have X traits/skills/etc or you're kicked'

And in terms of the actual thread question and traits themselves, would these be more weighted towards dps/healing or utility?

[Warlyx]

FFXIV will never have full utility jobs , in a game where the full party is 8 with 4 slots for tanks healers leving only 4 for dmg...3 dps + supports needs to be better than 4 dps....or worse...so how u balanced that?..if u bring 1 support the pt is op/up....is a !$!$ mess , is no wonder the mmorpgs are avoiding full support jobs at most u gets half support half dps that no1 wants to play (see eq2 bards and enchanters)

[Gamer3427]

I honestly don't get the problem with skill bloat that so many people seem to have. On my MCH in particular, I'm easily set to where I can manage another three expansions worth of skills by just adding one hotbar I can switch to and from with one button on my PS4. Maybe it's more of a PC problem?

As for the direction they'll take, since it's pretty clear they have no intent to actually buff MCH in terms of raw damage and instead have it more of a support role, I'd like to see some actual support skills on it. Right now we've got the MP/TP regen, and a couple of weak debuffs, but that's it. The regen in particular is rather useless if you have a competent group outside of doing chain-pulls or Savage, because practically every class has some skill they can use to regen their primary resource on their own. Personally, I'd like to see a shielding turret, (I'd call it "Knight Autoturret"), that has 25% of the player's health and takes all damage in place of them while it's up, or in Promote mode provides a circular shield that protects for 5-10% damage while draining MP. Since we don't have any self healing, give us the option to trade off some DPS in an emergency for boosted defenses.....

[nickx]

FFXIV will never have full utility jobs , in a game where the full party is 8 with 4 slots for tanks healers leving only 4 for dmg...3 dps + supports needs to be better than 4 dps....or worse...so how u balanced that?..if u bring 1 support the pt is op/up....is a !$!$ mess , is no wonder the mmorpgs are avoiding full support jobs at most u gets half support half dps that no1 wants to play (see eq2 bards and enchanters)

Understandable, but I could see 1 support role in each party which could essentially empower the 3 other dps in the group to increase their damage significantly, or apply vulnerabilities to the boss, etc. A support job could even synergize with other jobs with their skills, such as having the ability to empower ninjutsu of ninjas, empower the jumps of dragoons, etc. I know it would require some balancing and job tweaks, but I personally would find it more interesting.