Something needs to be done about Alex Normal looting system.

[Pibz]

As the title says, right now the way Alex normal loot works is you have no lockout for the week nor for the run and as such the chances of you getting any item in any given run if everyone rolls for everything is (edit: actually / said 1/8 before /facepalm) ~2/5 (ie the expected return in items per 5 runs is 2..) which is worse than what we had before the lockout was removed (edit: this is still true).


The solution is simple and should've come naturally when they removed the lockout.. Just make a run "lockout" in that each person is not allowed to win more than one roll per run (maybe remove this if full group queued or if loot master is on), it's incredibly frustrating to see people get multiple items when most get nothing and looking at the low chances of getting anything is pretty discouraging. (edit: still stand by this)

(edit: not as urgent as i thought)

For what it's worth i think this should be implemented into 24man raids when they no longer have a weekly lockout as well.

edit: So i messed up the maths in the original unedited post pretty bad (ugh), guess that's what happens when you do math when you're tired.
Zova got it right in his reply further in the thread so yeah. Anyway while not nearly as urgent as my bad-thoughtless math showed it to be, i still see no reason for it not to be improved since the gear is outdated and being able to get something every 2 runs is still better than 3 for outdated content in my opinion.. But yeah, i recognize my mistake and it wasn't as big an issue as i was making it to be.

It's still pretty idiotic to dismiss something where someone is trying to show an issue and giving a solution by saying "LOL QQ MORE" so, fridge (and all you genius white knights who upvoted him) you're still in the wrong for having that attitude cause it's stuff like that make the devs think they can just shove retarded grinds down our mouth, and this doesn't change just because my numbers were off, as you clearly didn't even see the mistake yourself.

[FridgePanic]

Boo hoo why didn't RNGesus smile upon me today

[Pibz]

Boo hoo why didn't RNGesus smile upon me today

Wow, really?!
So first, you reduce my proposal and arguments to QQing, when it's your post that absolutely no substance. Basically you are non-contributing to the discussion, why even post?

Second , yeah i'm being so unreasonable, such fun to be had in running something an obscene amount of times for 1 piece of gear, so fun right?
Why don't we just roll back the measure to reduce this absurdity in other encounters and make it so primals dont drop tokens or so that you don't get tokens on your Alex Savage clear anymore either? I mean it was so much better before right? They were so silly to change it... ( /s)

(edit: sniped out lots of bad math, updated OP to reflect correct info, kept the above bits as the sentiment still stands as dismissing something as "It's just RNG, lols" is pretty irritating)

[Archaell]

]...

Expected number of runs for the chest piece would be still 32, as they drop only in A4 and why would you farm the harder thing, if you don't want the chest piece? Also if you could get only one item, players would be rolling for the shafts first.

Btw. There are also double drops, which improves the odds.

[Archaell]

There are 4 items per run. 4/8. You have 50% chance to win an item every run... if you run it enough times :P (Also sometimes players need only what they really need, which increases the chance to win an item)

But I agree that if you need something like the shaft, where everyone is doing A4 to get shafts, it can be pain to farm it. The best way to fix your problem is to create a PF party.

In my opinion Ex like token system would be better... but SE.

[Martin_Arcainess]

There are 4 items per run. 4/8. You have 50% chance to win an item every run... if you run it enough times :P (Also sometimes players need only what they really need, which increases the chance to win an item)

But I agree that if you need something like the shaft, where everyone is doing A4 to get shafts, it can be pain to farm it. The best way to fix your problem is to create a PF party.

In my opinion Ex like token system would be better... but SE.

50%? na it's a lot lower then that now that 1 person could potential acquire all 4 items in 1 go, if you gonna do % I'd say more along the lines of 12.5%.

but totally agree with OP it's got worse now that the loot res was removed.

[Kaurie]

I agree the current design is horrible (as it was on release). I would prefer the actual items to drop than these tokens.

There are 4 items per run. 4/8. You have 50% chance to win an item every run... if you run it enough times :P (Also sometimes players need only what they really need, which increases the chance to win an item)

Each item doesn't effect the chances of winning the next item. Essentially there are a much larger number of possibilities of receiving an item. So yes, there are increased variables in which you'll receive a loot drop, but there are exponentially increase variables in which you don't. So the value is still around 1 in 8 (I believe, I haven't done the math).

But I agree that if you need something like the shaft, where everyone is doing A4 to get shafts, it can be pain to farm it. The best way to fix your problem is to create a PF party.

I kind of agree with this, but even that is stupid. To get a full 8 person party all 4 shafts will take you 32 runs.

In my opinion Ex like token system would be better... but SE.

100% agree. The loot should just drop with everyone receiving a token, so that if they don't receive their item in X runs they can purchase it. Move all equipment slots to 10 items needed. Give 1 bolt, 1 pedal in A1, 1 lens, 1 chain in A2, 1 crank, 1 spring in A3 and 1 shaft in A4 in addition to 2 random equipment items from the loot list.



I spent 15 hours doing Alex normal (floors 1 and 4) this weekend, and I got 3 bolts. Fun times.

[Archaell]

I agree the current design is horrible (as it was on release). I would prefer the actual items to drop than these tokens.



Each item doesn't effect the chances of winning the next item. Essentially there are a much larger number of possibilities of receiving an item. So yes, there are increased variables in which you'll receive a loot drop, but there are exponentially increase variables in which you don't. So the value is still around 1 in 8 (I believe, I haven't done the math).

That's why I said if you do it enough times. Of course in the smaller sample size it is highly improbable to get close to 50% ^.^

[Kaurie]

That's why I said if you do it enough times. Of course in the smaller sample size it is highly improbable to get close to 50% ^.^

but running it more doesn't increase your chances of getting it on a given run, it simply increases your chances of getting it period.

It's been awhile since I've done stats, probability etc - so I need some help with this, as it doesn't seem quite right. Here is what I haev so far.

Say w, x, y and z dropped. You have the following loot possibilities:
wzxy, w, wx, wxy, wyz, wy, wxz, x, xy, xyz, xz, y, yz, z = 14 possible scenarios of receiving an item.

Then there are 8 possible outcomes for each item (1 of 8 people could get each of x, y, z and w), so there are 8 * 8 * 8 * 8 = 4096 possible outcomes.

so your chances of winning is 14 in 4096. However, this seems particularly low (much lower than I'd expect at 1 in 8). Please, tear apart my math and show me what I did wrong.