Strength Tanks

[kensatsu]

since 2.0 Tank can push dps with more str, less vita.
seriously i never get a problem with it you can push dps in dps stance when you can and compensate it, and you can swap tank stance when it's needed.
the important is like spookyghost said : tank should not be single minded.
a tank can be super tanky and aslo push dps and you need to not think only about maximise dps. but also to survive and not be a hell to heal. it's obvious for a tank.
i think vita tank/ str pushing dps tank, should not judge themself also.
you play how you want to play. if you think you need your str so go for it, if you think you need all vit, go for it.
I am glad SE will certainly do something about the Tank stat because it seem many guys like to make VIT/STR warflamme, and only think to defend is way to play vit or str.
So maybe all the tank should be at the same school and have the same main stat.
That and also, nice less time to farm both vita and str accesories for every tank.
When players say you would to do it only to savage raid, you forget something, players want to speedruns content, it's a grinding game, players just wanna be fast and would even take risk to be faster. with this fact you see str tank everywhere for any content.

[Zojha]

You can't get rid of tanks trying to maximize damage without gutting the functionality entirely[...]

Sunder Armor used to be a thing. Pretty sure you could even include it in a combo system without changing the classes from the ground up. Heck, you could give every ability a weapon/stat-dependent enmity modifier and then purely supportive effects with no damage whatsoever. Let some inflated enmity numbers flash up on the screen so people don't "get bored" and you're set.

But then you step outside the dungeon and lack the dedicated damagedealers to kill anything. And "that" is why we have a hard time getting rid of the damage paradigm of tanks. Frankly, tanks/healers have as much business doing damage as damagedealers have healing/tanking: None. That's the trinity design. And that's totally fine, until the trinity is broken in solo play.

That's where the mess starts. You now give tanks/healers the tools to end a fight ASAP and of course they'll try to use it in a group setting as much as possible as well. Which can't be resolved without essentially designing two different classes for each type of content. Hence, do as little tanking/healing as possible while doing as much DPS as possible.


TL;DR: Trinity design is stupid.

[Sapphidia]

TL;DR: Trinity design is stupid.

I generally agree with this. Lord of the Rings Online did something interesting though with its tanking class, the Guardian (though I havent played it in years so not sure if this is still the case).

Guardians were able to equip 1h/shield or 2h weapons. They had a bunch of skills that did damage after they parried an attack, and a bunch of skills that did lots of -threat- after they blocked an attack. Obviously you could only block with a shield equipped, so if you were using a two handed weapon you naturally lost access to the vast majority of your threat moves (you had like... one move you could use without needing a block that was for getting initial threat, but not keeping it).

The idea was quite elegant - in a dungeon environment you equip a sword and shield and as you block attacks you use your reactive block moves to generate AOE threat (most did virtually no damage). In a solo environment you equipped a big two handed sword and used reactive Parry moves to do lots of solo damage. However, you couldn't effectively be a DPS class in a group because your big damage moves required you to be being hit for parries, and you couldnt hold threat well without the shield.

It worked fairly well I think. Point is: it's possible to have a situation where a class has two "modes", one for solo and one for group tanking. Doing lots of damage in a solo environment is not necessarily going to mean you always do huge damage when tanking too.

[Mendalas]

Dead mobs also do zero DPS, which lowers HPS requirements.

Also, having more HP doesn't stop you from being mushed by mechanics, it only buys you a tiny bit of buffer in trash pulls--you should be using CDs anyway, or you're going to be in for a Bad Time as a tank.

/endthread

[RuleofThree]

Also I pull with Voke then shield lob or Scorns

You are really missing the point here. When it's all said and done, you are getting the same amount of hate + 1, as any other tank who just uses Tomahawk alone. You are getting no statistical advantage at all, save for that one extra point. However, even this fact isn't the point.

The point is you are wasting an ability that takes 40 seconds to return, and by doing so risking a moment in which that ability would have been useful -such as dps derping and attacking the wrong enemy with their strongest attack. In situations like this, where it will take you half - or in worse cases - a full combo to get the hate back, you could have instead used provoke.

I know this post isn't gonna change your initiate-by-provoke ways, but at least I feel better by trying.

[Lyth]

The main cause for misunderstanding in the damage vs. mitigation discussion is that many players think that the two represent different play-styles. They don't. Your damage output as a tank has much less to do with your rotation than it would with a dps class. It has much more to do with how you understand the patterns of incoming damage and matching the correct amount of eHP and mitigation to that damage through gear, stance, and cooldown usage. If you underestimate the amount of incoming damage you die. If you overestimate it, your dps plummets.

There are elements of tanking that are not easily quantifiable, such as positioning and its impact on raid dps. But with all things being equal in terms of MT/OT roles, job choice, and ilvl, a tank who puts out more dps than another generally does so through a better understanding of mitigation and tanking as a whole. (You cannot put out dps while dead, so survival is intrinsically built into your ability to put out damage.)

The same principles apply to healing as well. The better you understand the healing timings of a fight, the more windows that you will see between points of incoming damage where you can safely put up dots and dps. This is not a trade-off. You just have a better understanding of when is safe and when is not.

[Uhm]

I guess all this comes down to is playstyle, I don't have to do massive DPS to think that tanking is fun and right now I'm also not doing any high level raids, but I don't quite get how healing could be more interesting without the possibility of also doing DPS (you could say I shouldn't heal then, but I like healing+DPS). That's why I obviously like Tanks that don't take unpredictably huge chunks of damage suddenly better, and I assume that is easier with more Vit.
As a tank I also don't have a problem if the healer lets my HP fall as low as they feel comfotable with without letting me die, benefit of more HP. That being said I am packing more strength on myself since that seems to be the trend.
All this also depends on the situation the tank is in and his skill. In Duty Finder playing save is always better, what works with people you know might not work with people in Duty Finder and suddenly the srtength tank in Deliververance is dead faster than he can click Holmgang because the healer just woke up and wasn't prepared to spam Cure II on him while the Dragoon/Blackmage stands in AoEs and the Bard exidentally pulled three more mobs with his auto-attack.
Is healing and tanking in other games a lot different? My brother asked me to level a WoW character for him once and I was surprised to only find healing spells on his hotbar at that time... he also seemed to think it was weird when I mentioned stacking more Str as a tank.

[VaddixKrieg]

lol your funny XD the only thing having a higher hp does is lower tank dps and give the healer an excuse to be bad

[kensatsu]

i think with all the good intention or not with this tread, tank do how they want to do.
we can convince str tank to wear vit, and vit tank wear strenght all the day.
everybody need to be full vita ? no
everybody need to be full str ? no
it's your choice.
Why let other choice for you after all.
I can understand someone asking to switch my str because i die. it's certainly why i never encounter this case in casual content.
the same happen when you don't reach the dps check ,on a savage, you are vit so you need to wear str.
Just Tell just one reason to a tank not dying in savage raid in str, think he will die in a casual and a lot easier content wearing the same thing.
Just accept the fact some tank know what they do, and others mess and this is where you encounter issue with tank wearing str accesories. if someone wear str accesories, undergeared it's a other story.
i never get any problem, not a single healer show he me was not happy, or even asked me to wear something else.
i don't say to vit tank to switch str, do as you wish, if you don't wanna switch str you have your reason, i never call a tank wearing vit to be bad, because it's not requiered to wear str accesories. and any str tank don't have to say every tank should wear str instead of vita.

[RecklessLion]

It does I started the game as a str tank funny how it was the right thing to do.