Strength Tanks

[Ashkendor]

That's so true. My friend recently got a parser and we run a lot of content together and honestly the best phrase to describe it is "what has seen cannot be unseen" because the majority of DPS coming from DPS roles is extremely low and it's mostly been the norm rather than the exception. You'd honestly (@Hayward) be extremely surprised at the low amount of DPS that most DPS players are puling.

I ran into a Ninja last night that did 160 less DPS than my Scholar on Faust.

Seriously, what was he doing? x_x

[Syzygian]

You may wanna edit out that parse before a mod gets out their Awoken Banhammer.

Anyway, its more telling of the exception of the rule. 3/4 DPS there were doing pretty well, with 1 outlier, and the former 3 were all doing plenty more than the healers and tanks.

You have to take into account new players; new players are having to learn way more than we did from 1-50. We had an entire 2.x series to learn our jobs front backwards forwards and upside down, so 50-60 was not as bad as having to learn and master 1-60 all in the scope of a month or two. The mechanics introduced in the new DPS jobs from 50-60 are IMO far more geared towards those of us that were at 50 going into the expansion. If I had had to learn BotD for instance only a few short levels after first hitting 50 on my DRG I probably wouldn't have been pushing out decent numbers either.

Also who even knows what gear that NIN was wearing.

Last night farming A1N for Anima Drops I outdpsed 3 BLMs and a MNK on my DRK on faust. Totally didn't care, cause we 1-shot it and went on with our lives.

[Ashkendor]

You have to take into account new players; new players are having to learn way more than we did from 1-50. We had an entire 2.x series to learn our jobs front backwards forwards and upside down, so 50-60 was not as bad as having to learn and master 1-60 all in the scope of a month or two. The mechanics introduced in the new DPS jobs from 50-60 are IMO far more geared towards those of us that were at 50 going into the expansion. If I had had to learn BotD for instance only a few short levels after first hitting 50 on my DRG I probably wouldn't have been pushing out decent numbers either.

Also who even knows what gear that NIN was wearing.

Last night farming A1N for Anima Drops I outdpsed 3 BLMs and a MNK on my DRK on faust. Totally didn't care, cause we 1-shot it and went on with our lives.

Yep. The entire point was that someone before didn't believe that there were DPS doing literally half the damage of other players. The NIN had to be at least i170 since we were in Alex Normal, so even if he was new, he was at least in full Law gear or better.

But seriously, I don't think I could parse that low unless I left myself autoattacking and went afk. ._.

[Hayward]

But seriously, I don't think I could parse that low unless I left myself autoattacking and went afk. ._.

This is exactly my line of thought. Jobs like BLM are such that you'd have to TRY to do so little damage (knowledge of the rotations notwithstanding).

[Odett]

This is exactly my line of thought. Jobs like BLM are such that you'd have to TRY to do so little damage (knowledge of the rotations notwithstanding).

Yeah, you'd think so, but again, you can't just say "there's no way this would happen" when I have encountered numerous times people who pull extremely low numbers. The amount of times this happens will honestly surprise you greatly if you have the means to check peoples' numbers.

[Conando]

People can do whatever they want. I myself run mixed unless told otherwise (whether that be all vit or all str). I'll say this though, no amount of tank damage is going to make up for bad DPS.

Edit: Speaking of, there was an instance where I was running A1 NORMAL with a FC Mate (both of us tanks) and we actually hit enrage on both Faust and the Oppressors, and the DPS were in 180+ gear (and all has esoteric weapons except for one). It baffles me how they could be doing so little damage.

[RuleofThree]

If you didn't want to heal, you shouldn't have queued as a healer.

Healers don't play the healing role anyway. In this game, everyone is DPS...there is no job roles anymore. Tanks focus just enough to make sure they keep hate...but then focus on DPS output. Healers do just enough to keep someone alive...but make sure they optimize DPS. And normal DPS well...DPS. I miss the good 'ole days, when healers were meant to heal, tanks were meant to tank, and DPS were meant to DPS

[RamothElggur]

Healers don't play the healing role anyway. In this game, everyone is DPS...there is no job roles anymore. Tanks focus just enough to make sure they keep hate...but then focus on DPS output. Healers do just enough to keep someone alive...but make sure they optimize DPS. And normal DPS well...DPS. I miss the good 'ole days, when healers were meant to heal, tanks were meant to tank, and DPS were meant to DPS

which will probably... well hopefully the case with 3.2 endgame Raids again just like before with Coil.

However u cant reall stop people aiming for dps output on their classes..

once people grow comfortable with fights/getting more gear etc. they start to play way more aggressive, including the Heals and Tank. However this would be then just a nice addition and not a requirement, as it is the case atm with alexander Savage.

thordan does not really count cause there is no requirement for tanks and heal to deal dmg.

[Syzygian]

Even if they nerf tank damage to the ground and make bosses hit like the bastard child on steroids of Living Liquid and Bahamut Prime so you can almost never turn off tank stance while MTing it won't change the way we play our jobs. The correct rotation for each tank will still be the correct rotation and you'll still be pushing all the same buttons in the same order and it will require the same degree of skill.

Whenever someone comes around and says "I wish they'd make it so tanks would tank, etc." People unanimously assume this precludes maximizing DPS within the confines of whatever the ceiling winds up being. Its so tiresome and is the source of so much bickering and misunderstanding and hopefully it dies in a fire come 3.2.

[Brian_]

I think the greatest fallacy is that if things went back to FCoB standards, we'd go back to having tanks that tank and healers that heal.

No.

Tanks also DPSed back then. Healers also DPSed back then.

It wasn't nearly as necessary so it was much easier for players to clear content with poor GCD optimization.

That's the truth of what these people are saying. It's not an issue with the DPS. It's an issue with the difficulty of content. What they're trying to say is that if we go back to FCoB standards, more people will be able to get away with slacking off.

I'm 100% sure that if they shifted the focus back to the "core" roles, retained the difficulty, and made it so sub-optimal play in those roles resulted in the same brick-wall wipes that we have now with DPS checks, these "purists" would all be back on these forums crying after getting rejected from the content for not being good enough at tanking or healing. Except, at that point, their complaints would be much more transparent.