Strength Tanks

[Donjo]

I don't have a video but I could probably dig up some parses if I went looking.

It's sad how many DPS can't even DPS.

Hm. I wonder if there's a correlation here.

DPS, as of Heavensward, have all increased in complexity from 50-60. They tend to involve a lot of work in order to achieve maximum output. Following this, it would make sense that "bad DPS" are more common now than they were in ARR.

But what about Tanks? By and large their rotations for maximizing damage are all much simpler than a dedicated DPS, although Dark Knight is certainly the closest to that sort of level.

I wonder if there are any DPS out there who switched to a Tank job after not being able to cut it as a DPS, contenting themselves with being able to slap Slaying on and output a cool 1000-1100 DPS with a fraction of the effort it would have taken their previous class to reach 1400-1500?

It's pretty morbid if you think about it, isn't it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Whiston]

Hm. I wonder if there's a correlation here.

DPS, as of Heavensward, have all increased in complexity from 50-60. They tend to involve a lot of work in order to achieve maximum output. Following this, it would make sense that "bad DPS" are more common now than they were in ARR.

But what about Tanks? By and large their rotations for maximizing damage are all much simpler than a dedicated DPS, although Dark Knight is certainly the closest to that sort of level.

I wonder if there are any DPS out there who switched to a Tank job after not being able to cut it as a DPS, contenting themselves with being able to slap Slaying on and output a cool 1000-1100 DPS with a fraction of the effort it would have taken their previous class to reach 1400-1500?

It's pretty morbid if you think about it, isn't it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is very true, and it's a statement I heard when 3.0 was released.
The amazing players will really shine with the expansion of skills, and the previously decent to good players all of a sudden look awfully mediocre.

I think the tank classes are pretty simple to deal high amounts of damage in a lot of the encounters, the trick is simply the correct mitigation at the appropriate times.
I find when I play a DPS class, there is a lot more effort required in order to achieve really good damage.

That being said however, ALL of my DPS classes leveled to 60 will deal more damage than any of my tanks.
Even though the effort is arguably greater for the DPS classes, I don't feel dismal DPS is ever acceptable.

[Hayward]

-snip-

You've hit upon a very important point. I cannot comment completely in the case of MNK and DRG (MNK is at 53 and DRG just hit 60 this weekend with an Iwa-Toshi Kai and a patchwork of Alex and new dungeon gear), but the process of weaving 52-60 abilities is not as easy as some people think and is all the tougher while negotiating mechanics designed to disrupt DPS players' rhythm (let's not mention the occasional leaping off-screen, an utter bane to BLMs in the middle of Enochian or a SMN in the middle of their Aethertrail Attunement).

[VanilleFang]

but the process of weaving 52-60 abilities is not as easy as some people think

Who the crap thinks that would be easy? Rotations are the main reason I refuse to main a DPS class.

[Ashkendor]

I wonder if there are any DPS out there who switched to a Tank job after not being able to cut it as a DPS, contenting themselves with being able to slap Slaying on and output a cool 1000-1100 DPS with a fraction of the effort it would have taken their previous class to reach 1400-1500?

Those are probably the tanks I hate healing - the ones in Eso gear that mayaswell be using tissue paper.

You've hit upon a very important point. I cannot comment completely in the case of MNK and DRG (MNK is at 53 and DRG just hit 60 this weekend with an Iwa-Toshi Kai and a patchwork of Alex and new dungeon gear), but the process of weaving 52-60 abilities is not as easy as some people think and is all the tougher while negotiating mechanics designed to disrupt DPS players' rhythm (let's not mention the occasional leaping off-screen, an utter bane to BLMs in the middle of Enochian or a SMN in the middle of their Aethertrail Attunement).

Monk didn't seem to have changed much as compared to some of the others, but I could just be doing it wrong.

I was completely turned off to BLM because of the new rotation, though.

[Freyyy]

Monk didn't seem to have changed much as compared to some of the others, but I could just be doing it wrong.

Yeah it didn't change much, NIN didn't change much either. MNK basically just gained means to overcome his weakness when being forced to lose GL3 because of mechanics (Tornado Kick, the ability to stack Chakra and form-shift when there is no target to have a better come-back afterwards). Other than that, he only got 2-3 more oGCDs to weave in his rotation (Forbidden Chakra, Elixir Field, and Shoulder Tackle which was not usable at melee range before). Basically, MNK is now the only job which has always something to do with his GCD even when there is no targets on the field for 10+ seconds.
NIN just got a mean to refresh Huton via a combo, 1 direct damage oGCD, 1 buffing oGCD, and 2 threat-management abilities. The rotation didn't really change, it has even been simplified in terms of Ninjutsu usage and Armor Crush just really takes the place of one Aeolian Edge here and there.
These two jobs didn't get very much more complex at level 60. They just got more tools to keep doing what they were already doing at 50 (and a unique utility for NINs).
However, SMN, DRG, BLM and BRD all got their rotations improved in terms of complexity at some degree. I can understand how players can be struggling when first hitting 60 on these jobs, but now that we're in 3.1 it shouldn't be very hard for them to look at some videos or guides to help them improve.

[Sapphidia]

However, SMN, DRG, BLM and BRD all got their rotations improved in terms of complexity at some degree. I can understand how players can be struggling when first hitting 60 on these jobs, but now that we're in 3.1 it shouldn't be very hard for them to look at some videos or guides to help them improve.

Whilst I definitely agree with you, there's something else to bear in mind here. Those 4 jobs did get added complexity, but they also got big changes in terms of the feel and fun-factor of the class. YMMV of course, but "added complexity" isnt the only thing at work here.

Every class generally has a focus to their rotation. They all have 5-6 regular buttons they press in either a fixed rotation or a priority system, but they all have something else to manage. Monk is about managing the 3 stacks of GL. Ninja is mostly about Huton uptime and regular Ninjutsu use. Dragoon was mostly about weaving lots of OGCD hits in between an otherwise rather fixed rotation, but now suddenly it also has the management of the BotD buff to contend with, which adds the additional frustration of "oh no my buff fell off due to a weird boss mechanic". This frustration is something Monks had to deal with pre-HW, but DRGs largely didn't.

BLMs got a massive change where instead of just watching their mana and reacting to procs, they now have a very very fixed rotation that harshly punishes them if they're even half a second late hitting that Blizzard 4. Bards didn't really get a complexity change but suddenly they're a caster and can't move as much during their rotations.

Any player forced to play one of those classes would easily adapt and learn the new rotation, but the fundamental feel of those classes has changed massively. The additional rotation skills add in layers of focus and frustration that are far beyond what players of those classes experienced in 2.55, whereas Monk/Ninja by and large got skills that REMOVE frustration by helping their buff upkeep.

I can certainly see (and know a lot of people like this) DRG, BRD and BLM players just leaving the classes in droves not because it's too hard but because it no longer feels like the class they loved playing back in 2.55. It may be that the community buzz about how fun tanks are (particularly all the fell cleave memes at the start of HW) has made these previously dps-centered players at least dabble in tanking.

[Desudro]

I wonder if there are any DPS out there who switched to a Tank job after not being able to cut it as a DPS...

I have been, and always will be a "main" BLM...at least in my head. And I wouldn't necessarily say I wasn't able to "cut it" so to speak...but when you're a new father and averaging 3 hours of sleep at night, working 40 hours a week, and taking care of a baby until his bedtime, the type of maintenance that BLM requires is too much for me to focus on most nights. Not to mention, as has been brought up before, BLM feels different now than it did in 2.x content. I'm all for a little job complexity - I started off as a DRG and enjoyed the positional attack aspect before it got a bit better on weird mechanics fights - but BLM's focus shifted as soon as you finished the lv60 quest.

In the last several weeks, I've gotten my WAR to 60 and feel like I'm decently competent on it most nights lol! It's also MUCH easier to play when my 8 month old spends 3 hours screaming because he's tired but won't go the eff to sleep...but I digress...

[kensatsu]

Strenght vs vita tank ? Something may tell a strenght tank take more damage and is not easy to heal.
it's right anyway.
When a str tank only care about dps and sit on the defense CD, this tank should take a lot of damage and be difficut to heal.
But this is not true for every tank wearing str accesories, where is the trick?
Your str tank don't sit on defense CD and want to use it early to make it pop again sooner,
A war would use vengeance early by exemple. even if he don't realy need it, if he wait 90 sec before use it, he wast one vengeance.
And when this is realy damaging : the trick would be to use Inner beast (war) or Shieldtron (pld) just right before every cleave from the boss(it's a other exemple) (it mean also in this case you need to study the pattern from the boss, auto attack/cleave/cast ect, everything !)
A vita tank doing this ? this is safe, that's right, you better judge yourself if you need your vita it or not. if you are so safe with it, do you realy need it ? full vita or full strenght is not the question here, the question here is : i need at least this vita :it can be 20k HP for exemple, and the rest i can put strenght
It depend of of tank ability to use CDs and the healer.