Strength Tanks

[SwordCoheir]

I think a lot of PLDs are taking the "you do the worst tank DPS" thing as a challenge, so they're the most likely to be trying to prove that statement wrong. Personally, I've always stacked STR because I'm too lazy to build two separate sets of accessories for four jobs, and never really had a problem with being too soft to heal.

Quite frankly when the entirety of enmity mechanics is based purely on attack power and damage, and PLD's not only have the lowest damage of any class even when optimized for DPS, but the lowest hate modifiers of any tank, yeah there are just some hurdles that can't be avoided. Now if they actually put some value into VIT outside of just meeting a tankbuster threshold yeah sure, but when the devs build the game around a DPS meta, people can cry and moan all they want about VIT it just doesn't serve any real application beyond an hp barrier.

[Dhex]

Please stop, there is no sane reason why a healer should slot points into mind instead of piety. You having less mp is not an effective healing build.



Huehue.

[VanilleFang]

Please stop, there is no sane reason why a healer should slot points into mind instead of piety. You having less mp is not an effective healing build.



Huehue.

Lol, I almost thought you were serious at first. XD

[Dhex]

Lol, I almost thought you were serious at first. XD

VIT is pretty much analogous to PIE. STR is much more integral to Tank design overall - like MND is for Healers.

I don't understand why VIT is considered a primary stat - when it should be an additional tertiary stat on all right-side Fending slots - with the primary stat being STR.

Limited itemization and limited stats and Square still manages to miss their mark.


Just look at Parry.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

You know, I said last night to some tank friends, from the perspective of someone who began as a PLD, never hit 50 on WAR (JUST hit 39 last night) and has a DRK at 60 currently, that I never felt more in control or enjoyed tanking as much as I do with DRK and WAR - both STR builds for me. Sure, if I'm not careful and if I don't use cooldowns, I'll bite it quick, but I could say the same for PLD which I prioritized VIT. The difference however is I find myself less concerned with generating/maintaining aggro with STR build tanks, and have a much easier time keeping aggro against full-potato DPS (i.e. that NIN/SMN/MCH who bursts right out the gate, lol).

My perspective however is largely by feel, not necessarily true for any and all DRKs and WARs.

Also,

Just look at Parry.

/cathiss lol

[Calypsx]

I've never had issues healing a STR tank, even when they don't use cooldowns. Dungeons and basic trials are so easy unless they are pulling everything then I don't have problems. If they do mass pull of course they should use cooldowns but that's a given for both VIT and STR

[Sapphidia]

There's certainly truth that of the 3 tanks, if you're -going- to have a tank go full vit and pure brick wall, Paladin is the tank that suffers least from it. Provided you dont nerf your threat into the ground, a full vit full fending paladin will be less "bad" than DRK/WAR simply because so much of those jobs' power and utility comes from their higher dps and their dps-into-self-healing conversion. Plus on trash pulls the Paladin relies on Flash a reasonable amount, so the lack of damage stats doesnt affect them as much as it would nerf a Warrior's overpower or DRK's abyssal/salted.

Not condoning it of course, as Strength is still the optimal way to go. But if you're someone who for some reason -really- wants to be a low damage uber health brick wall tank, Paladin is the one that pulls it off best relative to the effectiveness they lose from not going Strength.

[Ashkendor]

I honestly do not care if you do. Bottom line is, use the cooldowns if your going str based tanking. Do not step into a dungeon if you do not want to use cooldowns. That is my opinion, take from that what you will.

Funny, cause you didn't say anything about cooldowns in your last post at all:

I can't help but agree with OP. I especially hate seeing any tank in full strength gear and not using tank stance. Lately, I've this a lot on PLD but on a lot of tanks in general. If I ask them to put on vit gear and they refuse then, I purposely let them die when in a dungeon when I play healer and see this. I know this is the wrong attitude because it wipes the party every time, but some people need to be taught a lesson in humility the hard way. Tired of this foolishness.

I hate to tell you this, but refusing to heal the tank doesn't teach them "a lesson in humility," it just negatively impacts the group and slows down the run. Griefing like this wouldn't make me put on VIT jewelry. It'd make me kick you from the dungeon.

As PLD, I do trash packs in Shield Oath and bosses in Sword Oath. As WAR, I do a lot more stance dancing.

Again my ultimate issue is still, use of cooldowns, if your taking more damage than I can heal then I won't struggle to heal you. Use the cooldowns, NOW. i won't beg or plead with you. If you want to wear str gear, that is fine then. USE THE COOLDOWNS OR DIE. I'm not going to beg or plead with you.

This is a 'bad tank' issue, not a 'STR tank' issue. If you've got a bad tank, yes a bad VIT tank is marginally easier to heal than a bad STR tank. I haven't had problems on any of the three tank classes; then again, I tend to wear my melds when I venture into DF without a healer friend in tow because I'm sick of lazy/bad healers letting me die even when I'm using cd's and pulling reasonably.

Learn how to keep the hate in your str gear if your pulling multiple enemies.

STR makes it easier to keep hate though, so this seems kind of non sequitur...

Perhaps it is better if I stated my ultimate issue with this before clicking submit and not proofreading.

Yes, that's usually best.

I think a lot of PLDs are taking the "you do the worst tank DPS" thing as a challenge, so they're the most likely to be trying to prove that statement wrong. Personally, I've always stacked STR because I'm too lazy to build two separate sets of accessories for four jobs, and never really had a problem with being too soft to heal.

It's not a matter of trying to prove it wrong. Anyone still playing Paladin at this point basically has to accept the fact that it's by far the lowest DPS tank. That doesn't mean we hang it up and go full VIT. We equip STR accessories for the same reasons as DRK/WAR players, just with lower numbers and a clunkier kit. Generally speaking, we're trying to get the most out of the class we enjoy playing.

Not to mention it's nice to be able to kill shit in the open world while leveling without feeling like you're beating it with a wet noodle.

[Aomine1992]

OP I think this is more so situational as Savage requires STR tanks or you won't even make that enrage time unless dps are over geared...

Casual content doesn't really call for a STR tanking unless you want to get done faster which is like maybe 3-5 mins faster depending on dps

Me personally I have always used 3 str accs and 2 vit accs and my points are half and half STR and VIT just because I do like to dmg as a tank even though it's not my primary job but by no means will I go full STR everything as I've seen those tanks who's hp is lower then my DRG lol but at the end of the day it's all about knowing your CDs and enmity rotations...tanking isn't difficult either way

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

Quite frankly when the entirety of enmity mechanics is based purely on attack power and damage, and PLD's not only have the lowest damage of any class even when optimized for DPS, but the lowest hate modifiers of any tank, yeah there are just some hurdles that can't be avoided. Now if they actually put some value into VIT outside of just meeting a tankbuster threshold yeah sure, but when the devs build the game around a DPS meta, people can cry and moan all they want about VIT it just doesn't serve any real application beyond an hp barrier.

The issue with Paladin DPS is the way the class is designed, and the potencies of its skills. It is not the damage multiplier that makes the difference. Every tank piece has the same amount of VIT on it, so changing how tanks calculate damage to VIT changes nothing for paladin – it will still remain in 3rd on the DPS chart.

There's certainly truth that of the 3 tanks, if you're -going- to have a tank go full vit and pure brick wall, Paladin is the tank that suffers least from it. Provided you dont nerf your threat into the ground, a full vit full fending paladin will be less "bad" than DRK/WAR simply because so much of those jobs' power and utility comes from their higher dps and their dps-into-self-healing conversion. Plus on trash pulls the Paladin relies on Flash a reasonable amount, so the lack of damage stats doesnt affect them as much as it would nerf a Warrior's overpower or DRK's abyssal/salted.

Not condoning it of course, as Strength is still the optimal way to go. But if you're someone who for some reason -really- wants to be a low damage uber health brick wall tank, Paladin is the one that pulls it off best relative to the effectiveness they lose from not going Strength.

I would be willing to bet that the damage all tanks do going from full STR to full VIT would reduce by the same amount (per class) If a full STR WAR does 20% more damage than a full STR PLD, it will be the same ration on full VIT builds.

Like Aomine said, I used to stack 2 VIT accessories and 3 STR. But this was back in 2.x when secondary stats meant more, and the amount of HP needed to survive the tank buster was more than my present left side gear could handle. (this was the poor man’s version of the fully pentamelded right side). Since my left side gear gives me all the HP I need for raid, I no longer wear VIT accessories.