Strength Tanks

[Syzygian]

Unfortunately, it may not die. Even if 3.2 does solve the STR vs. VIT debate, all it will do is shift where the argument is. Instead of a conflict between STR Tanks and VIT Tanks, it will instead shift to "DPS Stance Tanks" vs "Tank Stance Tanks". "Anybody who spends more than a few GCDs in their Tank Stance is a bad player" is an opinion that is already starting to spread through Reddit. It's only a matter of time before it reaches the Official Forums in full force, and 3.2 is the perfect potential catalyst to shift things violently in that direction.

If that does happen, I as a DRK am going to say DRK's deserve 90% of the blame for such a potential occurrence. Right now DRK has the same problem PLD does with stances being on the GCD, but since we only have one (Grit) and dropping it costs nothing, combined with how retarded our MT DPS is, Grit is treated as more of a cooldown than a stance. You're basically a WAR in Deliverance that still has access to IB... an IB that does no damage but lasts forever. So we tank Gritless so we can constantly Blood Weapon/Low Blow/Reprisal our faces off, and when we run out of cooldowns, turn Grit on until one of them comes back up.

If you go over to PLD and try and tank a fight like Thordan the way you would on DRK in that fashion, it just SUCKS, because you can't freely manipulate Shield Oath the way you can Grit, because you can't just turn it off, you have to turn on Sword Oath.

DRK's entire playstyle in the scope of maximizing the DPS potential of the job is a pretty obvious telegraph to what you're predicting, sadly. Not that I don't enjoy it, but its not like we need another form of toxicity to replace that which we already have. =/

[Ashkendor]

Unfortunately, it may not die. Even if 3.2 does solve the STR vs. VIT debate, all it will do is shift where the argument is. Instead of a conflict between STR Tanks and VIT Tanks, it will instead shift to "DPS Stance Tanks" vs "Tank Stance Tanks". "Anybody who spends more than a few GCDs in their Tank Stance is a bad player" is an opinion that is already starting to spread through Reddit. It's only a matter of time before it reaches the Official Forums in full force, and 3.2 is the perfect potential catalyst to shift things violently in that direction.

Eh, honestly I kind of have zero #*$&s given in that regard. If someone wants to tell me I'm bad for using my tank stance, they're perfectly welcome to step the hell out of my party. Example: I tank Thordan in Shield Oath unless I'm not getting hit (first Zephirin and meteor phase, mostly). Maybe I'm a little gunshy because I've pugged that fight a lot and I've run into a lot of subpar healers that let me die to stupid things, so I mitigate everything I can. The thing is, I've also been complimented by several good healers on being exceptionally easy to heal in that fight. That makes me very happy because that's exactly what I aim to be. The less they have to heal me, the more they can pay attention to the rest of the party. Alexander Savage is a different beast altogether. I'll have to continue to push my limits (or perhaps swap to warrior :/) as we continue to progress in A3S.

[Donjo]

Eh, honestly I kind of have zero #*$&s given in that regard. If someone wants to tell me I'm bad for using my tank stance, they're perfectly welcome to step the hell out of my party. Example: I tank Thordan in Shield Oath unless I'm not getting hit (first Zephirin and meteor phase, mostly). Maybe I'm a little gunshy because I've pugged that fight a lot and I've run into a lot of subpar healers that let me die to stupid things, so I mitigate everything I can. The thing is, I've also been complimented by several good healers on being exceptionally easy to heal in that fight. That makes me very happy because that's exactly what I aim to be. The less they have to heal me, the more they can pay attention to the rest of the party. Alexander Savage is a different beast altogether. I'll have to continue to push my limits (or perhaps swap to warrior :/) as we continue to progress in A3S.

We need more people like you in this community. Keep doing what you do.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

.... I've run into a lot of subpar healers that let me die to stupid things, so I mitigate everything I can. The thing is, I've also been complimented by several good healers on being exceptionally easy to heal in that fight. That makes me very happy because that's exactly what I aim to be. The less they have to heal me, the more they can pay attention to the rest of the party. Alexander Savage is a different beast altogether. I'll have to continue to push my limits (or perhaps swap to warrior :/) as we continue to progress in A3S.

You can talk all you want about tank DPS numbers, optimum ways to perform in certain fights, etc. At the end of the day, it is your responsibility as a tank to recognize what your group can and cannot do. If your healer cannot handle you being out of tank stance. DON"T DROP IT! On the other hand, if your party can handle it, I encourage you to push your play (and your party's) to the edge of your skill. You only get better by striving to be better.

[Ashkendor]

You can talk all you want about tank DPS numbers, optimum ways to perform in certain fights, etc. At the end of the day, it is your responsibility as a tank to recognize what your group can and cannot do. If your healer cannot handle you being out of tank stance. DON"T DROP IT! On the other hand, if your party can handle it, I encourage you to push your play (and your party's) to the edge of your skill. You only get better by striving to be better.

Yeah, definitely. Even though we don't need the extra DPS, I've been working at pushing the amount of time I spend in Sword Oath for A1S and A2S basically to practice. I know that I'm basically behind the curve, but it is what it is. When I'm with my static group, I don't end up with the healer trust issues that I end up with in pugs. Even then, it can be kind of hair-pulling to push my limits because our WHM can be a little... stodgy? She's a great healer and I love her to death but she doesn't like change much and sometimes gets really stressed about it. Last night, we ended up wiping in A1S because I died due to heals being a bit slow and she asked me, "...were you tanking in Sword Oath? I wish you'd said something and I would've paid closer attention to your HP." I was a bit confused, because I've been tanking it almost entirely in Sword Oath for about three weeks now. xD

[Syzygian]

I wonder if SE knows that this thread has gotten 66% of the views in 5 days as their forum sticky has gotten in over 2 years. If that's not a symptom of a pressing, urgent, divisive issue that they had better thoroughly and adeptly address ASAP, I dunno what is.

[Kaeoni]

As a Sch, If you're not in Str accessories I... don't necessarily have a problem with you. But I would obviously prefer increasing your str over vit. I just assume they either have trust issues or don't know any better. The entire problem is that there's such a thing as too much of a good thing. It goes for all stats and everything in life. However because of how the game is designed RIGHT NOW, too much vit can be a bad thing. Reason being is, like people have probably said, It doesn't do anything for you after a certain point. It just becomes a pain in the butt to heal.

I find anywhere between 13-15k HP is more than enough to heal a tank and gives you lots of time to DPS as a healer. I see lots of 20k HP tanks and I just feel like it's wasted stat potential. The tanks have some great ways to cure themselves (bar pld... *sadface*) which is augmented by their Str stat. More time spent DPSing from both the healer and Tank roles really saves a lot of time in the grand scheme of things.

[fm_fenrir]

The tanks have some great ways to cure themselves (bar pld... *sadface*) which is augmented by their Str stat.

I've been pulling myself out of some real bad situations with Clemency the last couple of days. Sure, there's a DPS opportunity cost in using it, but it's the strongest reusable self-heal a tank can use and it scales with STR. Even with a couple of Clemency casts during a fight, I'm still doing 720-770 with my left side gear.
Souleater comes close, but to get 5k HP worth of heals out of it requires at least two DASEs, which costs way more MP than Clemency does, and 6 GCDs.

[Syzygian]

Souleater comes close, but to get 5k HP worth of heals out of it requires at least two DASEs, which costs way more MP than Clemency does, and 6 GCDs.

You regenerate half of the cost simply by rotating through the combo b/c of Syphon Strike. A single DA Souleater has a net loss of less than 1000 MP.

2 DA Souleaters = 884 - 1768 + 884 - 1768 = 1768 MP cost. Clemency is 2121 iirc.

PLD loses the ability to block/parry/do damage for 3 seconds and heals for 1200 potency for 2121 MP.
DRK continues to parry and deals 1600 potency over 6 GCDs not counting oGCD, heals for 800 potency for 1768 MP, and cannot be interrupted.

I'd call that a wash.

[fm_fenrir]

I'd call that a wash.

I agree, mostly, but the point was that Clemency is a lot stronger than people give it credit for.