"Content Finder" - Please be careful

[Neptune]

I normally refrain from doom and gloom posts, but that bit about the Content Finder in the 2.0 blueprint stuck out at me.

I was a WoW player before I came here. (Quit for various reasons I won't get into). As most are probably aware, WoW introduced a "Dungeon Finder" queue about three years ago. At the time, I loved the idea of the dungeon finder. I thought it was the coolest quality of life improvement the game had seen since dualspecs.

It was something new and unpolished then, and its implementation permanently damaged the game in a way that could not have been predicted. The content finder feature has the potential to be great, but only if it's done better than WoW did it.

In XIV a couple months ago, I was looking for a Toto-rak group. I hadn't done any of the Grand Company stuff, but the group I found for it was kind enough to explain what I had to do and walk me through it, even though it delayed their dungeon run by more than half an hour. That was a kindness I had not seen in an MMO in three years, and I believe that WoW's Dungeon Finder is to blame for its loss.

Being assigned to groups makes mercenaries of us all. There is no incentive to be civil to people, because you can expect to never see them again. There is no incentive to pass the Gladiator shield that just dropped to the tank, even though its his mainclass and mine's still level 1 (because hey, I might want to level gladiator some day), unless the game forces us to do it. Those who try to be kind will only get screwed over by those who don't, and they will have no recourse for justice because (no matter what happens) selfish, uncivil players will always be able to enter the queue and get a fresh batch of people to screw over (with a wait time that's no longer than a civilized, kind player would have to wait).

For the last year I spent on WoW, almost every group was either completely silent for the entire run, or else singling out a single member (one who was less geared than the rest of the group - one who needed the gear that dropped in the dungeon we were doing rather than outstripping it by miles) to berate endlessly for "slowing the group down" simply by being there. I played a healer, so I avoided the worst of it, but it was dehumanizing to watch every day.

After hearing it enough, I came to believe it. That someone who was performing under what I would have expected from their gear level was "wasting my time" by "not bothering to learn how to play their class." On a good day, I'd keep my mouth shut. On bad days, well, by the time I'd calmed down, they were gone across the realm boundary and I wouldn't be able to apologize.

I don't want this community to become that, and I don't want to become that again.

Please, SE, whatever you do, do not make the game build parties for us. Make people talk to eachother. Let us see a list of names so that we can choose people we know to be good or avoid people we have had bad experiences with. Make it cross realm. Make it nudge people along when there's a group that can be formed but no one is forming it. Make it as convenient as possible for us to find people to form groups with, but do not make it build the groups for us.

Please be careful.

Thank you.

I think they can auto build the groups without giving up civility. If they put the right incentives into the experience, like the ones you mentioned are missing, I think it will work out. They could implement a type of loot system that only let's a player roll on loot if they are tied at the highest rank of the class in question, or even implement two different loot modes depending on what you select when you go in. The possibilities for ethical matching are limited only by the imagination.

[HiirNoivl]

Every once in a while, a party is just going to stink. Perceptions of often that smelly party comes and any worries or lack of worry about the Content Finder stems from personal experience. Is it really the feature, just bad luck, or the community itself that will make a bad party? It's impossible to tell. Right now, everyone is a bit forced into Linkshells and don't communicate much outside of Linkshells because there is no party search feature.

[charlemagne]

I prefer the fact that we play with people on our own servers, we get to know them and we build a community. Players are more likely to strike up a conversation and make the effort to get to know each other if there is a high chance they will play together often. Community is a big part of this game for me and for a lot of other players.

[Crica]

Any grouping feature in the game is going to be optional to use.

As in don't have to use it to group up.

As in make your own groups if you don't like how the optional tool works.

As in one tool can't please everyone no matter what.

As in group up with your friends and linkshell mates if you don't want to group up with random strangers using a grouping tool who are not your friends or linkshell mates.

[Aleczan]

Well said.

It's the people, the kindness, the friendliness, and the good-natured community of players in MMORPG that keeps me coming back for more. I do not believe in automatic grouping system. I prefer to spend an hour to communicate with players that WILL become my party members, even though it's just for a short day of mission or dungeon. I would hate to randomly be thrown into a party or forced by the system to group up with an asshole.

[Jinko]

Well said.

It's the people, the kindness, the friendliness, and the good-natured community of players in MMORPG that keeps me coming back for more. I do not believe in automatic grouping system. I prefer to spend an hour to communicate with players that WILL become my party members, even though it's just for a short day of mission or dungeon. I would hate to randomly be thrown into a party or forced by the system to group up with an asshole.

The days when MMO's where like that are long done, if that's what you enjoy you should consider FF11, SE have said time and time again they want FFXIV to be casual friendly, so of course they are going to have group finders and things to make playing the game more open to casual play.

[Quanta]

Well said.

It's the people, the kindness, the friendliness, and the good-natured community of players in MMORPG that keeps me coming back for more. I do not believe in automatic grouping system. I prefer to spend an hour to communicate with players that WILL become my party members, even though it's just for a short day of mission or dungeon. I would hate to randomly be thrown into a party or forced by the system to group up with an asshole.

Then don't. Spend that hour and form the group outside of the tool, using whatever resources you have available to you--linkshells, friends' lists, creeping on people over /tell, whatever you want. You have that option, and a lot of people take advantage of it so they can play with a few friends or people from their server, using the tool to fill out the rest; the rest would rather go about their in-game day, letting the tool assemble the group on their behalf.

[Darkhaund]

In my personal Opinion with Dungeon finder people will not care to worry about "waiting" for others and the sense of community might get a blow...

[Jinko]

In my personal Opinion with Dungeon finder people will not care to worry about "waiting" for others and the sense of community might get a blow...

TBF I don't like to wait for random strangers regardless, it shows a lack of respect if people keep you waiting around.

I don't mind so much if its a LS member but im not guna waste my day for a random nobody.

[Aleczan]

Yes of course I would stick to my old-school method of assembling my group. ^_^ If we're allowed to bypass the autogroup system.

And nope, Jinko, thanks for the offer but I'll have to pass. I played FFXI for 5 years and left for FFXIV.