A3S nerfs incoming

[Saccharin]

Probably everything will be nerfed. Having content only few people can clear is not $$$healthy$$$ to the game.

It's sensible game design. there's no point in designing content that a very, very small fraction play.

The story and savge mode was supposed to solve this problem.

It's no shock that the super-loud screams from 'the hardcore' were from a very, very small minority so it's lead the inevitable nerf.

As I've said before expect the newer savage raid to be much easier since they misjudged the demographic.

Actually it is very healthy. Gives something for people to strive toward.

In practice that's not how it works, people just dont do it.

[Fevelle]

It's sensible game design. there's no point in designing content that a very, very small fraction play.

The story and savge mode was supposed to solve this problem.

It's no shock that the super-loud screams from 'the hardcore' were from a very, very small minority so it's lead the inevitable nerf.

As I've said before expect the newer savage raid to be much easier since they misjudged the demographic.

Completely agree with you, my comment was more because I read yesterday someone saying that if "SE don't please raiders, they're gonna lose $$$$$".

Having SOME content that can only be cleared by a few people is fine. MMO players like feeling special/unique. Content that not everyone completes/obtains is an easy way to accomplish that.
The problem is, there's only 1 option for raiding content at the moment, and it's incredibly difficult.
Imagine some of the only worthwhile rewards you could get from Gathering/crafting were only realistically obtainable by a very small percentage of crafters/gatherers; people would rightfully complain. But if there's some worthwhile rewards that aren't as difficult to obtain, most players would probably be okay with that.

I see a lot of comments about raids giving an accomplishment feeling when cleared and that it makes the players feel unique but sorry, I can't relate to that, so I guess I'll never understand.

Failing at something and retrying multiple times until you learn every single counter-measure so you can clear it is unbereably boring for me, and when I finally beat something like this it leaves a bittersweet feeling of "God, how much time I wasted killing a monster?". That accomplishment and special/unique feeling only comes to me when I work towards something step by step, with time-sinks and dedication. That's why I'm so hyped for the new relic, it's gonna keep me busy and happy with the game for some time!

[CosmicKirby]

I see a lot of comments about raids giving an accomplishment feeling when cleared and that it makes the players feel unique but sorry, I can't relate to that, so I guess I'll never understand.

I really think you can relate.
You ever feel like you wanted something a bit less once you saw that everyone had one? Did you ever really want that new glamour that came out, but once it became less expensive and more people were wearing it, you really didn't want it as much?
I really doubt that you've never experienced something like that, I'm sure some people don't feel it very often, but I doubt anyone is so 'perfect' as to never feel a bit shallow or envious. Sure, it's vain and a bit shallow, but exclusivity and uniqueness is a very desirable thing.

If you're one of the very small percentage of people that has accomplished X difficult task in an mmo, and you have the reward to prove it, you'd probably be of the opinion that it's a good feeling to know you're one of the few.

[Fevelle]

I really think you can relate.
You ever feel like you wanted something a bit less once you saw that everyone had one? Did you ever really want that new glamour that came out, but once it became less expensive and more people were wearing it, you really didn't want it as much?
I really doubt that you've never experienced something like that, I'm sure some people don't feel it very often, but I doubt anyone is so 'perfect' as to never feel a bit shallow or envious. Sure, it's vain and a bit shallow, but exclusivity and uniqueness is a very desirable thing.

If you're one of the very small percentage of people that has accomplished X difficult task in an mmo, and you have the reward to prove it, you'd probably be of the opinion that it's a good feeling to know you're one of the few.

On games? Nope, never felt like it. I feel like this when people start reading something I love and ruining it with memes and the like.
Even when I played Ragnarok, and was in one of the first groups to kill MVP Beelzebub after Nameless dropped, I didn't feel that special. I felt special when I did the Level 4 Weapon quest and got me a Slash. As I said, maybe because I come from previous games from this franchise and other old J-RPGs, what makes me feel accomplished is finishing a heavy questline, where I had to dedicate myself and work to get my reward.

[ArchonCina]

Probably everything will be nerfed. Having content only few people can clear is not $$$healthy$$$ to the game.

I'd disagree.

Having content that nobody can clear is bad.
Having content intended to be casual that few can clear is bad.
Having content that only a few people can clear is called endgame, and it's the challenge that draws players to it in the first place. If everyone could clear A4S in one lockout or Savage Coil without much effort, those content would be trivialized. Their impact and their effect on the players would be diminished severely. The game needs a challenge to remain healthy. It's only bad if everything is too challenging, or nothing is too challenging. Currently the game is leaning toward the latter and needs to swing back toward the middle.

[Giantbane]

Probably everything will be nerfed. Having content only few people can clear is not $$$healthy$$$ to the game.

I disagree with this. The vast majority of the content is not very difficult and most players can clear it. But it's also good to have difficult challenges for those players who like that sort of thing.

The problem with coil was it had a great story locked behind difficult content most won't see. But now they have Alex normal for glamours and story. There's really nothing a casual player needs from Savage. Savage is smart in that it reuses most of the assets from normal mode, so it shouldn't require a lot of extra cost to develop. This is the best and most cost effective way to provide good challenge for those who want it, while not detracting in any way from normal, more casual players.

There's no need to make Savage much more "accessible" at all. It's not necessary, useful or even profitable to have most people do this niche content.

[RiceisNice]

I disagree with this. The vast majority of the content is not very difficult and most players can clear it. But it's also good to have difficult challenges for those players who like that sort of thing.

If normal mode wasn't an undertuned, DF content, then sure. Otherwise, you're acrrying over players who have statics oriented to FCoB slamming their heads onto A3s for the past few months, assuming they were even in a static for that long. Otherwise, if you're omitting savage out of the equation, there's no raid content other than normal mode which is DFable. Being on either (or both) end of the extreme isn't good; If it's too easy, it gets exhausted too quickly. If it's too difficult for most people, well you kinda see where we're at now with the raiding community.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If normal mode wasn't an undertuned, DF content, then sure. Otherwise, you're acrrying over players who have statics oriented to FCoB slamming their heads onto A3s for the past few months, assuming they were even in a static for that long. Otherwise, if you're omitting savage out of the equation, there's no raid content other than normal mode which is DFable. Being on either (or both) end of the extreme isn't good; If it's too easy, it gets exhausted too quickly. If it's too difficult for most people, well you kinda see where we're at now with the raiding community.

But then is the solution "nerf A3 Savage" or "Establish a midcore level for players who want a challenge, just not one as brutal as A3?" Thordan EX is a prime example of developing a good fight that fits the latter paradigm, though supposedly the devs have said they won't make another quite that difficult, which I find disappointing.

[RiceisNice]

But then is the solution "nerf A3 Savage" or "Establish a midcore level for players who want a challenge, just not one as brutal as A3?" Thordan EX is a prime example of developing a good fight that fits the latter paradigm, though supposedly the devs have said they won't make another quite that difficult, which I find disappointing.

I personally think they should leave savage alone, especially if it's premise is that it's meant to be hard. The problem with this is that the "normal mode" is a DF-joke that requires no progression, and savage ends up becoming the to-go to raid difficulty for any and all static groups. It leads to the mess we have now, and honestly it's a bit of a deep hole for smaller servers that's lost their raiding population to transfers.

Even if they were to nerf A3S and bring the next tier to be just as difficult as pre-nerfed A3s, you'll inevitabily run into the same problem; the novelty of A3s being a "new encounter" because of the nerfs is entirely lost on those who've been slamming their faces onto it for the past few months, versus the non-static raiders DFing into Coil for the first time.

[Yukiko]

(..) most players can clear it. (..)

Can you please backup this with numbers?
There is a reason why SE is nerfing content, they HAVE the numbers!
All is relative, you can start counting "active players" or lessen the number with saying "active raiding players", no wait: lets say "hardcore gamers" or "server first players"... it all depends of your point of view!