A3S nerfs incoming

[Aldotsk]

To me, 3.0's stale end game felt no different from 2.0's stale end game since only few selected can go do Coil past Turn 4-5 and the rest had to live with weekly Mythology or even barely do Turn 1 and 2. In the end, they aren't really making much difference.

3.0 at least had Alexander normal for people to pick up on some decent gear, but not Savage gears. Yet it was still stale. 3.1 seems the same, but I guess Void Ark and Exploration are what make people to stay and do end game contents.

As always, we'll see Echo and slight nerf for new patch when they are adding new gears into the game with higher item level scores. Though I really would like to upgrade my Esoteric weapon and get Gordian weapons from Savage, but I kind of wonder how they'll implement players to earn those gears after 3.1. Would they add the upgrades and weapons weekly by doing Alexander Normal? Or will they nerf a lot for Savage?

[Kuwagami]

To me, 3.0's stale end game felt no different from 2.0's stale end game since only few selected can go do Coil past Turn 4-5 and the rest had to live with weekly Mythology or even barely do Turn 1 and 2. In the end, they aren't really making much difference.

I just wanted to point out that in 2.0, people went up to T5 pretty easily even with pick up groups. T5 was a whole other story (though it got waaaaaaaay better once they nerfed the twisters) but not to the point of what AS3 is. The main difficulty of T1-4 was to fight the lag. After the fix in october 2013, they became a reasonable challenge for people who were aiming at something harder than Titan HM but nothing too hard.

The equivalent would be to be able to PUG almost consistently AS3 by now. And considering you can't even consistently PUG AS1, or AS2, well, the situations aren't the same

[Yukiko]

(..) The circumstances behind the two content are entirely different though. (..)

You try very hard to find justification.
It was not only SoF and you did not read the part about ultima... whatever, its fact and you can read in forum!
I do not compare anything, i just say what was said back then from other content and players ALWAYS remain silent after it has become outdated -> Look at Bismark weapons... or Coil

Edit: Lets make a test -> Try to find players for ultima and then ask them why they joined

[RiceisNice]

Edit: Lets make a test -> Try to find players for ultima and then ask them why they joined

You'd still get different results compared to asking players for ultima when it was released versus now, and thordan now. You started comparing as soon as you brought up Ultima, who arguably didn't have much of a reward going for it at the time since it was going lower Ilvl gear than what was already available. The reason for nerfing SoF is entirely different for nerfing Thordan (if there is even going to be a nerf).

[CGMidlander]

I just wanted to point out that in 2.0, people went up to T5 pretty easily even with pick up groups. T5 was a whole other story (though it got waaaaaaaay better once they nerfed the twisters) but not to the point of what AS3 is. The main difficulty of T1-4 was to fight the lag. After the fix in october 2013, they became a reasonable challenge for people who were aiming at something harder than Titan HM but nothing too hard.

The equivalent would be to be able to PUG almost consistently AS3 by now. And considering you can't even consistently PUG AS1, or AS2, well, the situations aren't the same

I'm not so sure about A1S. I see it being pugged almost all the time, even on a small server like mine.
A2S however, is less common. (Mostly because nobody really like it. lol)

[Kuwagami]

I'm not so sure about A1S. I see it being pugged almost all the time, even on a small server like mine.
A2S however, is less common. (Mostly because nobody really like it. lol)

I do see a lot of PFs. But most of them fail. I know around 20 people without a static with whom I could go and expect a clear on my server. All the others are mostly hit or miss, with a high tendency of missing.

Back in 2.0 (or even 2.1), I would go blindly in any pick up group from T1 to T4 and know I'd get the clear in under 30 minutes (the time to adapt to different strats used) for any turn, under 2 hours for the whole run.

forming a group for AS1 clear now is like forming a group getting past dives in T5 back then. 95% fails.

[Yukiko]

You'd still get different results compared to asking players for ultima when it was released versus now, and thordan now. You started comparing as soon as you brought up Ultima, who arguably didn't have much of a reward going for it at the time since it was going lower Ilvl gear than what was already available. The reason for nerfing SoF is entirely different for nerfing Thordan (if there is even going to be a nerf).

You should search the forum, i am not comparing - look at date in forum postings - players acted same as now!
Search for Ultima or Coil or ANY other content that got nerfed...
All i was comparing is to predict it will end SAME as it was with the others - just confirm it with your research in forums if you do not believe!

[Nihility]

You both are misinterpreting what I said. That percentage was merely a random example to cite people quitting over A3's immense difficulty would likely quit later on due to "having nothing to do" if it were nerfed enough they were able to clear it. Shelf life is fine, but there needs to be a wall of some degree maintain a lengthily enough challenge until the next bevy of content is released. Frankly speaking, if people outright quit because they cannot beat A3 savage, they were always going to quit eventually. The issue I take with nerfing it is this presumes all content is meant for everyone. I am a big proponent of midcore level raiding, yet also feel there should be something in the game for those who enjoy brutally difficult challenges. It's the equivalent argument I have towards games that claim to have multiple difficulty levels, but make them all relatively easy.

The operative word there is "you." Conversely, I would have fun preparing for Savage, but I'm also someone who will grind for 7+ hours straight and occasionally enjoys games like Bloodborne, which is notorious for beating the crap out of you until you learn.

Now if they brought in the Echo, I could accept that "nerf" because it appeases both of sides. I still have the opportunity to get tarred and feathered until I finally get it (or die trying!) and others get an easier challenge if they wipe. What I don't want to see is a nerf equivalent to Steps of Faith. While I do appreciate why they did eventually nerf it, SoF went from a legitimate challenge with some interesting mechanics to a complete snooze fest. If they just lowered A3's DPS check slightly, I wouldn't have as much an issue.

One other solution I could get behind is what Mr. Happy grudgingly suggested. They nerf A3, but the next levels of Savage become just as hard to compensate. Basically, it opens up progression and a better opportunity to prepare for the harder challenge ahead.

You still don't seem to understand the population at all.
Alexander Normal has been bashed repeatedly throughout this entire thread as having no lasting power yet if you randomly queue for it you get in less than 5 minutes every time for any floor. It's not even very good gear with diadem around yet it's being run nonstop all day every day

No matter how boring you or I may find it the empirical evidence would suggest Alexander normal is among the most popular things in the entire game.

Alexander Savage on the other hand is destroying large chunks of the raiding community. Just yesterday I witnessed two separate groups implode under the pressure causing people blaming each other for not being able to beat dps checks despite no deaths

What was wrong with binding coil's difficulty level? It was tough enough to need a lot of work and practice but it wasn't just a huge brick wall that made the normal raiding crowd lose hope completely. I don't recall any mass exodus of people leaving the game because it was too easy like you seem to keep predicting with alexander

[ForbiddenMonk]

A3S kills can be pugged. Its been going on for a while now. I'm hoping they would wait till 3.2 to nerf previous raids. Give a chance to the stragglers (myself included) to finish up A4S

[Kuwagami]

A3S kills can be pugged. Its been going on for a while now. I'm hoping they would wait till 3.2 to nerf previous raids. Give a chance to the stragglers (myself included) to finish up A4S

Of course you can, being on gilgamesh. It's like saying that you can pug AS3/4 on chocobo. But on "normal raiding scene" servers, AS1 & AS2 are little miracles when they are downed with pugs (and by that I mean real, random pugs, not selected few in LSs). And the fact that there is a raiding exodus on other servers (gilgamesh, odin...) doesn't help.