A Tank Balance Megathread

[Februs]

The issue is, do we really just want to clone DRK's rotation where its basically get hate and then ignore the hate combo forever? That's why I didn't think it'd be ideal for putting it on RA. Perhaps if the duration of the debuff and Goring Blade were extended to 30s?

I think ideally we want to see something along the lines, at the the end of the day, of RoH-GB-RA-RA-repeat or RoH-GB-RA-repeat, depending on the potencies.

This is actually why I think the changes to RoH should be kept to a minimum.Personally, I'd rather see it's hate potency buffed but leave it's dmg potency and Debuff the same while adding the slashing debuff to the RA combo. Essentially, this would give a Pld two variants of their primary rotation that they can choose between depending on the needs of the moment of the fight. One would emphasize dmg mitigation while the other aided the raid in dmg output. They'd look like so:


RoH > GB > RoH > RA > GB > RoH > RA > GB > RoH etc (Identical to a Pld's current Primary combo that prioritizes enmity generation and Dmg mitigation debuff for higher Pld Defense)

RoH > GB > RA > RA > GB > RA > RA etc (Combo variation that prioritizes Raid Dmg increase at the expense of allowing RoH debuff to fall off briefly. Pld becomes more vulnerable to physical dmg, but dps checks become attainable.)

I organized them in such a way assuming that the RoH dmg potency remains the same. The current timer of the RoH debuff does not survive 3 combo rotations. Meaning if a Pld rotates RoH > GB > RA the Str down debuff expires before RA is used. If both RA and RoH had a timed debuff the Pld would be forced to choose which they wanted to prioritize and use the appropriate combo accordingly. If they are actually tanking, the choice would be obvious. If not, or if there's a moment in which the RoH debuff is not necessary (like the Sacred Cross Dps check in Thor Ex... or the entire fight of A4, for that matter) they could use their alternate rotation.

[Isius]

I see what you're saying. I still think it makes sense though, for PLD to offer raid dps increases given its lower personal DPS. That's a theme we see across all jobs. The issue is, do we really just want to clone DRK's rotation where its basically get hate and then ignore the hate combo forever? That's why I didn't think it'd be ideal for putting it on RA. Perhaps if the duration of the debuff and Goring Blade were extended to 30s?

If we buff RoH's potency, how much would it have to be buffed so as not render RA/GB obsolete but still maintain PLD's current DPS at minimum?

I think ideally we want to see something along the lines, at the the end of the day, of RoH-GB-RA-RA-repeat or RoH-GB-RA-repeat, depending on the potencies.

Haven't heard much on DRK changes, any thoughts on those?

Yes and No. First off Paladin never forgets about aggro like Warrior or Dark Knight does, or at a lot less degree versus a Paladin. Aggro always loams over the head of a Paladin trying to maintain aggro, while doing it's higher dps with GB > RA > RA > repeat. It doesn't matter if you stack all strength on your Paladin you will always slowly lose aggro without a Ninja if tanking against good Dps, while you as a Paladin trying to do as much dps as possible too. So atm Paladin's in most cases spam RoH/aggro combo at the beginning far more than other tanks to get the same effect as the other tanks. I personally can see why RoH has lower potency, since if we all look at the other tanks combos. The other tanks combos that go into mitigation -10%PHY/MAG/DMG all have lower potency, than their ideal most damaging combos, but Dark Knight is the expection, since even if Delirum Blade does have less potency it leads to more MP regen, more Dark Arts, more Dps/Utility. The lower potencies on these moves are meant to be a chioce made by tank for more mitigation at the cost of less dmg with that said it sucks this is the reason why RoH has such low potency, while being it's main means to generate aggro putting RoH into a odd place. Possibly bad design, and leftovers from incomplent design back from 2.x.

So RoH is not really a choice for Paladin, it's a must, and also means a lot less outgoing dmg from a Paladin unlike Dark Knight with our mitigation combo is also our aggro generation combo.

If you look at Paladin's Kit there is another move in HW that was buffed to help out where Paladin doesn't need to spam RoH, that is Shield Swipe. In 3.0 it was given increased emnity as a means to not have to spam RoH in my mind....but Shield Swipe again was also a dps lost versus doing GB or RA, while other tanks don't have to deal with this negative. So functionally, what I think in the devs minds Paladin was meant to RoH once similiar to Dark Knight's Power Slash, but also needing to use Shield Swipes to maintain it's aggro after RoH aggro generation. But Swipe Shield fell short in 3.0, and imo is still falling short in 3.1 with it's buff ogcd, but at a cost of potency from 210 to 150. It's better but doesn't achieve the goal I think Shield Swipe was meant to do because of it's reduced potency, or because it's aggro multiplier is too weak to actually do it's job.

So Dark Knight can just aggro once, while Paladin wishes it could do the same aswell, but needing to use Shield Swipe to try to maintain it's aggro, since Paladin does produce less aggro with RoH versus over tanks aggro combos, and aggro generation in general.

As for your question about how high RoH potency should be buffed, if RoH was given the +10% slashing buff...I say just forget about it. Since you might as well just use RoH, and RA would just become a underwhelming skill with slighty more potency, than RoH. As said as above RoH was given less potency because it has mitigation attached to it, even if it is it's aggro generation combo, and would only rip aggro off the mt with all your aggro changes to the skill. If +10% slashing buff was given to Paladin it should go to RA, it's highest direct dps combo. But that would make Paladin a Warrior, and I don't want to be a Warrior, and that buff is what makes Warrior a Warrior, and stated by Yoshi-P, and is part of thier kit, and don't spout to me as being a Yoshi-P lover either, because I am not, and actually bitter toward his ideals about Paladin, and with them knowing Paladin is underperforming, but does nothing about it. But Warrior's can keep all of thier tools, and also their mitigation move from Storm's Path. Those are Warrior's tools let them keep it, instead of trying to trade skills to balance tanks. Try instead to give Paladin it's own tools, and make it unique. Paladin is not a Warrior/Bard/Dark Knight/Astrologian, so if you want to be different don't compare it to those classes.

If you want my opinion on buffs/nerfs these are mine:

Paladin Changes:

Before I begin, you, and others on these forums are stating Paladin should be the Bard of the Tanks more utility, and but at the cost of personal dmg. Okay I will humor this idea, but remember Paladin is part tank/dps/healer class not a Bard. Let the Bard be a Bard while I will be a Paladin, and if people call my suggestions OP, than good it's getting to Warrior's level. I am also going to try to not affect Paladin too much in lvl50 content, but I will have to make changes to skills to bring paladin up to par, and also make changes to eliminate Pld's dps lost while doing it's base job, tanking. Since Paladin already has the lowest dps out of the tanks so it does need a better means to maintain it's dps aswell. Buffs to Paladin I will also try to make it were it meets the needs of both Paladin's that spec more into str, and also those that like to spec into vit, since Pld players are more tank minded, than Drk/War Players, and make the buffs useful to both str/vit playstyles.

Lvl30-50 Paladin Changes

Shield Oath - Produces x2.5 aggro multiplier while active. (I like your idea on this buff)

Shield Swipe - Cooldown is reduced to 10sec versus 15secs, and crits from combo enders also proc Shield Swipe. For slight dps/emnity increase.

Rage of Halone - No Emnity increase...would mess up Paladin off-tanking in lvl50. Since RoH combo is all Paladin had back then. Understood. Felt like I needed to just put this in, not a buff/nerf just stating why it shouldn't get a emnity increase, and probably not a potency increase too, so I am wrong too. Remains the same.

Flash - Now is ogcd with a 2.5cd, reasoning Flash is a aggro generation move that does no dmg. This is a pure dps lost with each use, while needing to tank multiple mobs. This leads to Paladin able to combo still while flashing between gcds. But also allows Paladins players to blind single target mobs with more ease or generate more aggro. So Flash no longer eats a gcd, leading to more dmg multi tanking, and more aggro on single target mobs. Other tanks can cross-class Flash, so take it as a buff for all the tanks, minus the blind. This change should bump the needed Paladin aggro during raid content leading to less RoH combos. Increasing Paladin's dps numbers more to the ideal dps it gets from test dummy parse.

*Also sidenote would make pre-lvl40 Plds have a easier time tanking mobs.

New Trait*(Replacement trait to Awareness 15-25secs Pld trait, all tanks can have the 25secs imo)
Replacement trait will make spells on Paladin use vit instead of mind, makes use of Physical Dmg from Paladin's weapon into the equation when casting a spell, and also skill speed acts like spell speed for Paladin. All at the cost of +50% MP to non-native Paladin spells.

This is meant to make Paladin's cross-class Cure more useful to a Pld, but at a higher cost to prevent Paladin replacing a healer, more for spot healing, if needed. These changes would benefit Vit Paladins more, but I think Str Plds will take these changes too.

Cure - Currently cost 442MP at lvl60, but with trait will make it cost 663MP, but is now useful cross-class skill.

StoneSkin - Currently cost 884 at lvl60, but with trait will make it cost 1326MP, a nerf, but also other tanks get nothing like this, so it is still a tool Paladin has above the other tanks.

*To me these cross-class skills should still have the cost of being interrupted, since you are going out of your role as a tank, and temporarily replacing a healer, and they are abilities you can continously cast till you run out of MP.

Tempered Will - Also applies Surecast benefit for the 10sec duration, cooldown is still 3mins, so Cure/Stoneskin is still a boon to a Paladin mting, but not spammable.

Spirits Within - No longer changes potency depending on how much HP a Paladin has, because it's dumb idea for a skill on a tank.

Lvl51-60 Paladin Changes

Sheltron - Imo Sheltron to remain 30sec cd, and mp regen. I can see why people complain about wanting it to block magic dmg, but honestly I don't care about magic dmg much as a Paladin myself. In some cases, I eat less magic dmg then a Dark Knight. So getting more magic defense is meh to me at the cost of less mp regen, and I prefer the mp regen atm. If I need more magic defense on a single boss, tank swapping is a thing afterall.

Clemancy - Now is a instant cast ability with a 2min cooldown. If Clemancy is used on oneself it provides a regen of 100% of your hp over a 30secs period, so if you have 17k HP you will regen 1.4k HP per gcd(Yep, you read this right), and if casted on a party member acts like a aoe heal similiar to Cure 3, but at a potency of 400, based on Str. (Yep, you read this right again.)
*Reasoning is to make Paladin more as the Defensive tank, which players want out of Paladin, and what the Devs spout out to us. That Paladin is the most defensive tank, but to also give Paladin a powerful group utility. These would lead you choosing to heal yourself or heal the group as a Paladin. Picking which effect to use depending on an encounter.
-Regen to self to make it were Paladin can take care of itself for 30secs during periods of low incoming dmg, so both healers CAN actually make up for Paladin's less dps.
-Group heal for added utility so groups can recover from raid aoes even faster, and to cover for Divine Veil's longer cd, but weaker aswell, since it is after the fact, and not actually preventing dmg.

Divine Veil - Remains at a 3min cd, but remove the healer trigger, and increase the range of the skill. I am fine with the 3min cd, if Clemancy gets the aoe heal when used on allies.

Royal Authority - Potency remains the same, but gains the effect of a 20sec debuff on enemies of +1% - +3% dmg increase to the target. Whatever is needed to compete with a Drk/War set up to a Pld/War, and Drk/Pld setup, while considering the Pld buffs I mentioned. *Not going to try to figure this out since numbers will always be different on the tank setup. But dmg increase from Royal Authority should be low since it is affecting all members.

***Call out if you like the Paladin changes, or scream they are op, or cherry pick the ones you like idc, these are just all my opinions afterall***


Warrior Changes

My Warrior is my secondary, and yes I think it is OP. Personally these are my changes to Warrior, but also not interrupting it's playstyle, but does slow it down some, and requiring the class to use Equilbrium's TP regen more.

Inner Beast/Steel Cyclone/Decimate/Fell Cleave - All still are instant cast, doesn't interrupt combos, but now cost 5 Warth/Abandon, but also each cost 60TP now, maybe make the aoe ones cost more TP, but idk about this idea the sametime too.
*Might nerf Warrior TP in lvl50 content, but with the Flash buff. I see no reason for a Warrior to cross-class flash if the have issues with aoe aggro/tp.

Equilibruim - While in Defiance Heal potency is reduced to 800 potency. Mainly due to Warrior as a number ways to already buff this heal. So it does feel like it needs to be reduced.

After this I would just bump the other tanks to Warriors level.


As for Dark Knight I don't have much of a opinion on it, since I rarely get to play mine, so I probably will not know better on what it lacks/needs, or what is too powerful or too weak. My main concern is about future proofing Dark Knight for future content. Personally it does feel like it does lacks a physical cd for raid content, not in dungeon content. Both are different things. Your idea to Dark Art to reduce Shadowskin/Shadow Wall should help with this, but might be hard to balance with content. I like the idea, but I don't play Dark Knight too much to know if it is too powerful or too weak to work, but my gut is leaning to it would be too strong. As for me, I personally I would like to see more HP regen skills gained from hitting mobs with Dark Knight, but that is just me, because Drk. ;p

But all these TP changes to all the tanks I would avoid personally, TP starvation has always been a thing during raiding. Why we get brds/mchs/nins in groups. Just need to make Warriors more TP hungry imo.

[eagledorf]

Oh, I recently made a bilingual blog post basically about this. http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest.../blog/2654560/

As pointed out, your adjustment to Halone is a bad one as it's a DPS decrease and makes PLD take 10% extra damage from all sources instead of just magic like we have now. If you want to give PLD a slashing debuff, you might as well attach it to Goring Blade like WAR has theirs attached to a Maim combo.

I like a lot of what you've suggested though.

[abzoluut]

Nice objective and constructive thread.

I would like to point out that it feels best when SE would balance all jobs, tanks in this case, through "upgrades". That said, there are some very useful changes given by the community. Maybe you can edit your thread and write the most popular, objective changes underneath the reapective tank:
(
Paladin
X changes

Dark Knigt
X changes
)

I do find it a bit misleading how you and others claim Xeno and Layla called very specific things overpowered. The both agree that WAR (and SCH I think they agreed on) are just very well balanced compared to other jobs and that of course equilibrium's CD, especially for Defiance's use (insane self heal), is too short.

[Syzygian]

I've only had time to give this a quick glance, but I'm liking what I'm reading so far, especially in regards to Pld.

One addition that I would make to the Pld adjustments is reducing the CD timer of Bulwark. As it is now, Bulwark and Awareness are the only two Pld moves that a Pld gets less synergy out of than Wars/Drks, because the CD timers are far too different. This would be fine if they had individual utility, but they don't. Pld's only ever use the two moves together, because Awareness increases the proc odds for Bulwark's shield swipes, thus increasing mitigation. Because the two timers don't line up, Pld's often end up sitting on Awareness for additional time (essentially extending the CD timer of that move artificially), just so they can use it with Bulwark for additional utility.

In comparison, War's have Raw Intuition which lines up perfectly with the timer of Awareness. If you pop them together they come back around together, and you can keep using them in sync. Drk's don't have quite the same efficiency, but the timer for Awareness actually works out so that you can use Awareness with every second Dark Dance (essentially following the defensive rotation of Dark Arts-DD > Awareness - DD. etc). Bulwark and Awareness do not share the same synergy. You can't use it on every second Bulwark without pausing your rotation of Bulwark, and you can't use it with every Bulwark without pausing your use of Awareness. That should be changed.

It might also be prudent to switch the "slashing debuff" to RA rather than RoH. For one, added mitigation on a Pld's main tanking combo is not a bad thing. Given that RoH is used more frequently in MT position, Pld would be able to steadily reduce incoming dmg. RA, on the other hand, is only effectively used once every 4th combo(*as it is now, and assuming the Pld is keeping the Str down debuff of RoH up 100% of the time). Currently Pld's can follow the combo rotation of RoH>GB>RoH>RA>GB>RoH>RA>GB>RoH etc. This way, a Pld's Raid dmg utility would go up as a OT (Following the rotation of GB>RA>RA>GB>RA>RA etc) rather than MT'ing. That being said, with your modifications to Pld hate generation it may be possible to interchange the two debuffs for additonal dmg while mitigating. If the increase in Hate gen from your changes allows a Pld to start a fight with their RA combo instead of RoH, it would be possible to switch the debuffs without much ill effect. It just depends on if the priority lies with mitigation or dmg, for a Pld.

Nice, very well written, and thought out read. I appericate it thank you.

But I am kinda confused about your changes to Rage of Halone, since I main Paladin. How would Paladin's combo rotation work now? RoH > GB > RA > RoH > RA > GB?

My Concerns:

1. Rage of Halone with your emnity buffs to RoH it might be a issue like Warrior has currently OTing, and might rip aggro off the MT, since if you give RoH Warrior's slashing debuff you will want it up all the time. Should buffs or debuffs be applied to main aggro combos? Why not put the slashing debuff on Royal Authority instead?

2. How would I even combo Halone to keep 100% up time on the slashing debuff? I know I will want to use RoH first, and then other combos afterwords to get the most benefit, but I am always seeing a drop off on slashing debuff. The timer does not add up for a three combo system. 20secs on slashing debuff is too short.

-Combo Example-
(Using 2.5gcd, same as above combo)

Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone(slashing debuff applied) > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Royal Authority > Fast Blade > Savage Blade (slashing debuff falls off) > Rage of Halone > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Royal Authority > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > etc, and repeat

I always get the slashing debuff to fall off right after Savage Blade, before I can apply another RoH again. So there will be 2.5secs gap between periods I can reapply the slashing debuff with another RoH. The slashing debuff needs to change to 24secs imo to work for Pld that uses 3 combos. I am assuming this is the combo you were thinking of too, since Goring Blade's new 30sec DoT lines up well with this set up. If not what were you thinking?

3. And no offense I think this RoH change is actually a nerf to Paladin's current possible dps output, if it was the one to upkeep the slashing debuff up 100% of the time. I'll try to use math, but this is not my thing either, so feel free to correct me if my numbers are wrong, since like I said this is not my thing.

New Combo(Same as the above) upkeep slashing debuff up 100% of the time, also assuming slashing debuff is increased to 24secs, and using the new 30sec dot given to GB.

-new combo rotation-

RoH > GB > RA > RoH > RA > GB > etc

Fast Blade - 150 + (5 x 150)1.1 = 975
Savage Blade - 200 + (3 x 200)1.1 = 860
Rage of Halone - 260 + (260)1.1 = 546
Royal Authority - (2 x 340)1.1 = 748
Riot Blade - (2 x 230)1.1 = 506
Goring Blade - ((540+80 for 2 more ticks, right?) + 220(can't include the dot dmg since it is at the tail end of the combo))1.1 = 924

Total = 4,559 potency


-old/current combo rotation-

GB > RA > RA > GB > RA > RA > etc

Fast Blade - 6 x 150 = 900
Savage Blade - 4 x 200 = 800
Royal Authority - 4 x 340 = 1360
Riot Blade - 2 x 230 = 460
Goring Blade - 2 x 540 = 1080

Total = 4600 potency, they are basically the same...but if we can add a Warrior, and it is still the one applying the slashing debuff.

-old/current combo rotation w/warrior applying slashing debuff-

Fast Blade - 150 + (5 x 150)1.1 = 975
Savage Blade - 200 + (3 x 200)1.1 = 860
Royal Authority - (4 x 340)1.1 = 1496
Riot Blade - (2 x 230)1.1 = 506
Goring Blade - (2 x 540)1.1 = 1188
*This all assumes warrrior needs 2 gcds to apply the slashing debuff, and with a pld likely using shield lob to start an encounter, before starting thier combo, so Storm's Eye should be up before Pld uses a GB.

Total = 5025 potency, a dps gain in the game currently. Idk about your change, it kinda bugs me somehow to know I will get a dps decrease as a tank without a warrior doing it, but still also nerfs the war/drk combo dmg, making pld fit better in comps then it does nowt, so the change with Pld having slashing debuff might be better in the end.


Feel free to correct me if I am wrong or if there is a better combo.


Personally, I would still like to see RoH get a potency increase instead, and idk how I would feel about losing -10% physical down debuff either, but I know I want a way for spells to not impact Paladin damage as much as it does now, again thx for the read.

I will give some thought to theorizing adjustments that will make a more reliable and stead PLD DPS rotation for MTing/OTing later. Crunched for time atm.

Nice objective and constructive thread.

I would like to point out that it feels best when SE would balance all jobs, tanks in this case, through "upgrades". That said, there are some very useful changes given by the community. Maybe you can edit your thread and write the most popular, objective changes underneath the reapective tank:
(
Paladin
X changes

Dark Knigt
X changes
)

I do find it a bit misleading how you and others claim Xeno and Layla called very specific things overpowered. The both agree that WAR (and SCH I think they agreed on) are just very well balanced compared to other jobs and that of course equilibrium's CD, especially for Defiance's use (insane self heal), is too short.

I wasn't intending it to be misleading, however I know from personal experience how people react at the thought of nerfing WAR in any fashion. They did specifically comment on WAR's infinite TP and the fact that Fell Cleave, etc. can be used with no regard to where you are in a combo chain, in a recent MogTalk. Even a 100 TP gain every 90s combined with Wrath/Abandon use delaying TP consumption gives WAR about the same TP sustain as a DRG, which is very good. I wasn't intending it to say that Xeno and co. WANT those adjustments to WAR, but just that if they were made, they would make some sense. Obviously no WAR main wants to see those things go away. But it just doesn't make sense in the context of all jobs. Its not just the tanks that it is outmatching, its DPS as well (in TP sustain, that is.)

[Shurrikhan]

I wasn't intending it to be misleading, however I know from personal experience how people react at the thought of nerfing WAR in any fashion. They did specifically comment on WAR's infinite TP and the fact that Fell Cleave, etc. can be used with no regard to where you are in a combo chain, in a recent MogTalk. Even a 100 TP gain every 90s combined with Wrath/Abandon use delaying TP consumption gives WAR about the same TP sustain as a DRG, which is very good. I wasn't intending it to say that Xeno and co. WANT those adjustments to WAR, but just that if they were made, they would make some sense. Obviously no WAR main wants to see those things go away. But it just doesn't make sense in the context of all jobs. Its not just the tanks that it is outmatching, its DPS as well (in TP sustain, that is.)

To be honest, even as someone who feels that WAR is a bit too useful compared to its lineup (though by no means wanting to nerf it, only to buff DRK and especially PLD towards it), I can't help but feel like there's nothing really wrong with WAR's infinite TP. I mean, that's not going to save you from having to use Paeon if a fight actually dragged long enough for your physical dps to need it (the Bard himself, even, if all others are cross-Goading NINs...). It's a warrior, the motif of which can be construed towards being endlessly enduring in warfare. As for the Equilibrium self-heal though... that does seem a bit too strong. But at the same time, I'd really, really hate to lose it.

[Syzygian]

To be honest, even as someone who feels that WAR is a bit too useful compared to its lineup (though by no means wanting to nerf it, only to buff DRK and especially PLD towards it), I can't help but feel like there's nothing really wrong with WAR's infinite TP. I mean, that's not going to save you from having to use Paeon if a fight actually dragged long enough for your physical dps to need it (the Bard himself, even, if all others are cross-Goading NINs...). It's a warrior, the motif of which can be construed towards being endlessly enduring in warfare. As for the Equilibrium self-heal though... that does seem a bit too strong. But at the same time, I'd really, really hate to lose it.

Equilibrium was brought down a peg, it wouldn't change the fact that WAR is well designed or an amazing tank. What does well designed even mean? If we're going off the fact that WAR is the best designed tank than what does that mean for DPS or other jobs in the game? How is a DRG or a MNK's design inherently flawed for instance? Where is the line between well-designed and excessive or broken? In my opinion, that line is crossed when it excuses a job entirely from having to worry about a major mechanic of gameplay, in this case, resource management, or even healing. It doesn't feel right to just sweep everything under the rug and give PLD and DRK infinite TP and super-powered self-heals nearly devoid of opportunity cost because then you really WOULD have the problem people yap about where DPS jobs become eclipsed by tanks.

That's just my opinion though, I want to and will edit the OP later on with quotes from the comment section.

[Shurrikhan]

Equilibrium was brought down a peg, it wouldn't change the fact that WAR is well designed or an amazing tank. What does well designed even mean? If we're going off the fact that WAR is the best designed tank than what does that mean for DPS or other jobs in the game? How is a DRG or a MNK's design inherently flawed for instance? Where is the line between well-designed and excessive or broken? In my opinion, that line is crossed when it excuses a job entirely from having to worry about a major mechanic of gameplay, in this case, resource management, or even healing. It doesn't feel right to just sweep everything under the rug and give PLD and DRK infinite TP and super-powered self-heals nearly devoid of opportunity cost because then you really WOULD have the problem people yap about where DPS jobs become eclipsed by tanks.

That's just my opinion though, I want to and will edit the OP later on with quotes from the comment section.

What makes WAR at least feel "good" or "right": Simply beautiful badassness, paired with beautiful simplicity thereof? With a side of versatility and freedom, arsenal built towards straightforward, almost universally useful results?
What makes it balanced... harder to say.

As for resource management on other tanks, I feel like PLD sustain and DRK MT sustain should be improved a bit, but just a bit (e.g. Fast Blade at 60 TP, Blood Weapon usable in Grit for minor healing [mostly for the TP cost reduction]). That being said, most of our current content kind of seems to make Paeon extinct as is, and leaves Goad for the MT or rezes only. It's getting harder and harder to call it a major mechanic of gameplay, and would be even less an issue if Skill Speed were more balanced in bonus DPS per TP against Determination and Critical Strike, such as by reducing base and bonus TP ticks by 20% but having them go off every base GCD instead (does not include effects of Fey Wind, Blood Weapon, Huton, or Greased Lightning), so that Speed builds perform almost identically in TP efficiency/longevity to non-Speed builds in average ST rotations.

[Isius]

Nice objective and constructive thread.

I would like to point out that it feels best when SE would balance all jobs, tanks in this case, through "upgrades". That said, there are some very useful changes given by the community. Maybe you can edit your thread and write the most popular, objective changes underneath the reapective tank:
(
Paladin
X changes

Dark Knigt
X changes
)

I do find it a bit misleading how you and others claim Xeno and Layla called very specific things overpowered. The both agree that WAR (and SCH I think they agreed on) are just very well balanced compared to other jobs and that of course equilibrium's CD, especially for Defiance's use (insane self heal), is too short.

MogTalk w/Frosty, Xeno, and Layla about tanks in FFXIV. It's long, but very informative if anyone is interested listening to the whole thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEBV_zEM7_M

[Sunako]

Highest mt dps and highest dps in tankin stance is different thing? Because in fact ppl mt while in dps stance.