AST's weakness in end game

[NorthernLadMSP]

LMAO umm what?? You're not serious? ASTs MP regent doesn't doesn't scale with Piety? Have you ever played AST?

[Mibgestalt]

LMAO umm what?? You're not serious? ASTs MP regent doesn't doesn't scale with Piety? Have you ever played AST?

I literally said "AST MP abilities". Not passive regen. Assize and Aetherflow both scale with maximum MP. If you want to foster meaningful discussion in here, read more carefully, and respond less rudely.

[NorthernLadMSP]

I'll respond less rudely when people like you stop spreading misinformation on the forum. You said AST MP abilities don't scale with Piety, which is completely wrong as both LA and Ewer are refresh potencies based on MP (aka their piety).

[AzureFlare]

He means there is tool for MP regen that scales with piety. Unless I've missed a memo, that's correct isn't it? We just have base mana ticks, whereas WHM has base mana ticks + Assize and SCH has base mana ticks + Aetherflow.

Edit: LA and Ewer are not based on piety. Their potencies only scale with level. Try it yourself, unequip all your gear. LA will restore 707MP per tick.

However, as much as I enjoy your talk about RNG mechanics, not getting 1 extended Ewer or 2 Ewers is the more rare case out of the two (getting vs not getting). My probability math went down the drain, but having 2 draws with one on a 1/6 chance to roll as needed (just Ewer) and one on a 1/2 chance (Ewer, Arrow or Spear) to roll as needed out of 24 draws should be high enough to make it a guarantee or near guarantee.

You mentioned it yourself earlier, let's wait until 3.2 rolls out. Context matters. There are thousands of combinations you can make between healing needed for a fight, when the burst is needed and how much, how many globals you have to do what amount of healing. If there's a fight designed for a WHM to always pull out Divine Seal + Medica 2 and Assize with nothing for AST to compensate, of course WHM will be better. If there's only tank healing and single target damage with bursts in 90s or larger intervals, of course AST will be better.

[NorthernLadMSP]

I'm not talking about passive, natural MP regen. I'm talking about MP regen abilities. The only difference between the other two healers and AST is the speed at which Aetherflow and Assize provide MP. They are instant where Ewer/LA is over time.

[technole]

I use the full toolkits of both jobs. The only thing I don't do on your post--I tend to prefer party buffs over self buffs, when RNG permits. Of course, if I really can't do anything else, I'll use the ewer.

edit: To be clear, I don't run out of MP on either job in the course of normal healing.

Same. I prioritize CO to buff the party when possible. I can't even remember the last time I use it to buff LA ticks because I generally don't need it either.

I'll even RR the Ewer even if my MP looks "low", but that is because of knowing the instance, damage upcoming, LA uptime, etc. Damage is sometimes the best mitigator anyway. As we healers know with fights like Thordan.

[Mibgestalt]

I'm not talking about passive, natural MP regen. I'm talking about MP regen abilities. The only difference between the other two healers and AST is the speed at which Aetherflow and Assize provide MP. They are instant where Ewer/LA is over time.

LA is 707 per tick regardless of MP pool. I don't know Ewer off the top of my head. I get that it's a confusing mechanic, not a lot of details on how Refresh works. And I actually think Refresh should scale with max MP and piety in some way, if it's any consolation.

However, as much as I enjoy your talk about RNG mechanics, not getting 1 extended Ewer or 2 Ewers is the more rare case out of the two (getting vs not getting). My probability math went down the drain, but having 2 draws with one on a 1/6 chance to roll as needed (just Ewer) and one on a 1/2 chance (Ewer, Arrow or Spear) to roll as needed out of 24 draws should be high enough to make it a guarantee or near guarantee.

You mentioned it yourself earlier, let's wait until 3.2 rolls out. Context matters. There are thousands of combinations you can make between healing needed for a fight, when the burst is needed and how much, how many globals you have to do what amount of healing. If there's a fight designed for a WHM to always pull out Divine Seal + Medica 2 and Assize with nothing for AST to compensate, of course WHM will be better. If there's only tank healing and single target damage with bursts in 90s or larger intervals, of course AST will be better.

Yeah I know, I wasn't calling for buffs. My only real point was the scaling on certain abilities, and that AST's MP management system has a bit more complexity than WHM, so I don't think the "on paper" really does it justice. I think AST is a little weaker in practice than on paper, is my point I guess.

[Kabzy]

You're also forgetting that, AST MP costs are lower for spells of the same potency as WHM. That means you spend less MP during a boss fight as a AST than a WHM, meaning their MP management is very much on-par with each other

You could also argue that WHM get procs to reduce their overall MP costs. Freecure being a very useful and fairly frequent one. And the Ewer might be decent, but I don't know many ASTs who would actually use that if it wasn't absolutely crucial, it's usually for shuffling.

[TatoRazzino]

We'll have to agree in disagreeing, then. Freecure procs won't be enough to grant better MP management simply because the amoung of MP a WHM saves by getting those procs matches what an AST saves from having spells that cost less MP. For example:

Cure costs 442 at level 60; Cure II costs 884;
Benefic costs 354; Benefic II costs 796;

15% chance to proc Freecure means that one of every 6-7 cures you cast procs. You can get more and you can get less, that's RNG, but you have to be ready to face situations in which you don't get any procs, so it evens out in the chance rate. 7 Cures cost 3094 MP while 7 Benefics cost 2478. A 616 difference. That's what? 3/4 of the cost of a Benefic II? And you save more from the other spells, save more from the fact that Essential Dignity is a very powerful healing spell with a shorter cooldown than Tetragrammaton, saves from Synastry, saves from Lightspeed on intense healing situations, save from the amazing Regen effect from CU, you can also save MP by extending HoTs with Time Dilation. Assize has a long cooldown and is not that reliable as an MP regen tool, specially if you're saving the skill for specific parts of the fight. Also, I line up my LA with cards so I can use CO to buff the party.

[TatoRazzino]

You could also argue that WHM get procs to reduce their overall MP costs. Freecure being a very useful and fairly frequent one. And the Ewer might be decent, but I don't know many ASTs who would actually use that if it wasn't absolutely crucial, it's usually for shuffling.

Not true. In A2S, Ewers and Spires are very valuable and not shuffled at all. Arrows are not always wanted because they burn resources too fast. Each fight has its own card strategy.