AST's weakness in end game

[TatoRazzino]

You don't even need Ewers if tou time LA with CO because AST uses less MP than a WHM does. People just look to the tooltips and say "WHM has two MP buttons, AST has one. Therefore, WHM has better MP management than AST". WHM still starves more than AST, and I've played both; the difference is that you see numbers flashing as WHM, while AST is more passive about it.

[Risvertasashi]

You don't even need Ewers if tou time LA with CO because AST uses less MP than a WHM does. People just look to the tooltips and say "WHM has two MP buttons, AST has one. Therefore, WHM has better MP management than AST". WHM still starves more than AST, and I've played both; the difference is that you see numbers flashing as WHM, while AST is more passive about it.

Having raided on both, I have to flat out disagree.

It is more complex than the number of MP restore buttons though.

[AzureFlare]

Well of course it is more complex, but in their zealotry people forget that WHM vs AST personal DPS is actually really close on a raid boss target (accuracy checks) and their mana restorations are pretty much the same unless your RNG is super biased, like "10 times Spire 8 times Spear 4 times Bole on bad moments"-biased. Encounter context matters a whole lot more than people give it credit for.

[Velox]

Can't agree with this at all. With the addition of Assize, MP is so much easier to manage on WHMs now. The only real way to get OOM is if you're not using Shroud/Assize when it's available or if you're overhealing like crazy. I thought MP management was a huge factor in learning WHM back in 2.x, and that's now relatable to AST only. Ewer is a very weak MP regen, and usually not even worth using unless you're in a very dire situation.

You're also forgetting that, AST MP costs are lower for spells of the same potency as WHM. That means you spend less MP during a boss fight as a AST than a WHM, meaning their MP management is very much on-par with each other

[technole]

You're also forgetting that, AST MP costs are lower for spells of the same potency as WHM. That means you spend less MP during a boss fight as a AST than a WHM, meaning their MP management is very much on-par with each other

Not to mention AST should be taking advantage of their toolkit to dramatically cut MP costs of skills during key moments of a raid. Lightspeed and Synastry help tremendously.

[NorthernLadMSP]

You're also forgetting that, AST MP costs are lower for spells of the same potency as WHM. That means you spend less MP during a boss fight as a AST than a WHM, meaning their MP management is very much on-par with each other

Not to mention, one normal Ewer card restores roughly the same amount of MP that Assize does. The only reason it FEELS that WHM is better is because they have more MP free heals.

[TatoRazzino]

Having raided on both, I have to flat out disagree.

It is more complex than the number of MP restore buttons though.

CO adds about two refresh ticks for LA, which restores around 10% of your MP. If you're starving, you can line up those two skills 100% of the time. The amount of MP you save from Freecure procs matches what AST saves for lower MP cost for pretty much all healing spells. You can add Ewers to that. You probably have less MP problems with WHM because you're more used to it than you are to AST.

[Risvertasashi]

CO adds about two refresh ticks for LA, which restores around 10% of your MP. If you're starving, you can line up those two skills 100% of the time. The amount of MP you save from Freecure procs matches what AST saves for lower MP cost for pretty much all healing spells. You can add Ewers to that. You probably have less MP problems with WHM because you're more used to it than you are to AST.

I use the full toolkits of both jobs. The only thing I don't do on your post--I tend to prefer party buffs over self buffs, when RNG permits. Of course, if I really can't do anything else, I'll use the ewer.

edit: To be clear, I don't run out of MP on either job in the course of normal healing.

[AzureFlare]

edit: To be clear, I don't run out of MP on either job in the course of normal healing.

For clarity sake, what do you define 'normal healing' as? Just so we're all on the same page.

[Mibgestalt]

I think AST lacking the MP regen that WHM does is an easier argument to make when it comes to balance.

Yes, WHMs spells cost more, but that's more than offset by Freecure over the course of a usual fight. I think the actual math puts it in favor of a WHM overall.

If we're making direct comparisons, then LA = SoS, which leaves the only realistic answer to Assize to be some combination of Ewer, CO, and Lightspeed (though, Assize is a potent MP tool not just because it restores MP, but because it is 1000+ MP worth of healing for free, but I'll ignore that for now), which compared to a WHM, mostly require the AST to give some of their raid utility up (not saying that choice is a bad thing, but it makes MP more dynamic and strategic for AST).

On paper, for now, it probably works out, but this really stems back to my main issue with a lot of theorycrafting when it comes to Astrologian. It's very easy to look at the math and say "well look you only need ___ number of ___ to match (other job's) _____" for any given fight! But if your signal that two classes are perfectly balanced is that if one gets a certain amount of an RNG mechanic on multiple fronts to match another's MP/mitigation/damage, then it's not truly a fair comparison within FFXIV's raid scene.
We all know that FFXIV raids are heavily scripted, and basically 100% reliable in terms of mechanics. If we saw more encounters that highlighted adaptability in gameplay and spell choice, I doubt we'd see as many ASTs feeling slighted, but as it is, the RNG of cards doesn't really mesh well with the way FFXIV's raids are designed.

But the above junk is really just my opinion. If you want a concrete, pretty much irrefutable concern regarding Astrologian MP, it's that going forward they are the only healer whose MP regen abilities don't scale with Piety in any sort of way. Every point of piety on gear will create a widening gap in MP management ability between AST and the other healers. It could end up not being an issue, but design-wise it's definitely a glaring potential issue.