AST's weakness in end game

[Rashammel]

10+

I don't really think like that, but some complains about AST "Weakness" is just "I don't like/know this".

[TatoRazzino]

.

You don't have to be so mean ^^"
I think he is right about N. Stance, while Diurnal allow to replace a WHM easily when you are paired with a SCH ; Nocturnal makes you work extra hard in your mana management, stance dancing etc... to reach SCH level when you are paired with a WHM.

Seriously, in my static, my co healer is a WHM and she doesn't want to dps, so I take the role of SCH and I know I'm making her work harder because I don't have a fairy if I want to go N. Stance. Plus, my dps is worse and the cards not always make up for the loss of a SCH. The only time I'm happy with N. Stance is in A2S, where she is DPSing while I'm healing because this way, we don't use HoTs and tanks are happy .

So, imo, keeping AB on the tank/AH on the party in Diurnal, and +5% attack speed is way better when you take the role of an "off-healer" or "DPSing-healer", making Noct a bit... "not bad, but not good".

But please don't take this post as a complaint, I think AST is fine too, I enjoy my AST a LOT and every healer comp can clear savage... I just think Noct need help in terms of DPS.

This is exactly the problem: your co-healer doesn't want to DPS. WHM/AST combo allows more AoE healing output and stronger single target burst for both healers, which means that both of you can stance dance in different situations and add your share of DPS. You can't use the same healing strategy you use for WHM/SCH because Nocturnal is not supposed to be a SCH replacement. Scratch the 2.X meta and use new strategies, instead of trying to make a job do something it was not designed to do.

[Troile]

I always find it funny how people jump on bandwagons. At first the general theme on the boards was "AST is broken", now it is "AST is fine". Well, I don't really like that. What I will say is this:

Yes, AST can complete all content. This is obviously the case as so many attest to it (therefore I don't need AST at level 60 myself to say that as well). However, the job needs some tweaks to nocturnal stance. Since shortly after leveling AST i have never seen a need to switch into nocturnal stance. I play everything, and play it well, in Diurnal. To me this smacks of a design flaw. There's really no need for me to even bother with nocturnal? Seriously? Then why is it even there?

If I look at it that way then a large part of the Astrologian's design is unnecessary, therefore it needs to be retooled. Either retool it, or give the job something useful in its place.

[Risvertasashi]

I always find it funny how people jump on bandwagons. At first the general theme on the boards was "AST is broken", now it is "AST is fine". Well, I don't really like that. What I will say is this:

Yes, AST can complete all content. This is obviously the case as so many attest to it (therefore I don't need AST at level 60 myself to say that as well). However, the job needs some tweaks to nocturnal stance. Since shortly after leveling AST i have never seen a need to switch into nocturnal stance. I play everything, and play it well, in Diurnal. To me this smacks of a design flaw. There's really no need for me to even bother with nocturnal? Seriously? Then why is it even there?

If I look at it that way then a large part of the Astrologian's design is unnecessary, therefore it needs to be retooled. Either retool it, or give the job something useful in its place.

I do agree that Noct could use some work. However, consider that AST can soloheal Thordan EX. The "AST is fine" bandwagon is pretty justified IMO: Overall, it is fine.

[GarnetTribal]

As someone posted in another thread - AST can clear content. Gameplay-wise, it's pretty solid.

Identity-wise, it needs a lot of work. With no clear identity on its own (diurnal/WHM and nocturnal/SCH) it not only has to compete with itself (which stance is better. There will always be one that's better) but it will also compete with the other healers. It needs its own niche of healing.

Yes, it's got a card drawing system - it needs to be emphasized more.

[MidnightTundra]

I do agree that Noct could use some work. However, consider that AST can soloheal Thordan EX. The "AST is fine" bandwagon is pretty justified IMO: Overall, it is fine.

While I do think that AST is fine in all content, Thordan isn't hard to heal when you have 5 DPS. The hardest parts to heal are double knights and the last phase before enrage. You should be killing a knight on the first divine right so the healing check is pretty much gone and you should skip the last phase before enrage with 5 DPS.

[Rashammel]

Yes, it's got a card drawing system - it needs to be emphasized more.

I want more love to the card system too.

[TatoRazzino]

Identity-wise, it needs a lot of work. With no clear identity on its own (diurnal/WHM and nocturnal/SCH) it not only has to compete with itself (which stance is better. There will always be one that's better) but it will also compete with the other healers. It needs its own niche of healing.

Long post incoming.

TL;DR: AST has identity and uniqueness, just like every other job in the game. Look more carefully to the toolkit and you'll see it. If you can't see it, compare the Melee DPS toolkit and you'll get a hint.

If AST has no identity, then MNK, DRG and NIN also don't have any identity. All three jobs have a status buff that needs to be sustained (Greased Lightning, Blood of the Dragon and Huton), a self damage buff that needs to be sustained (Twin Snakes, Heavy Thrust and Dancing Edge), every job has a combo that finishes with a DoT (Demolish, Chaos Trust and Shadow Fang), every job has off-GCD skills and an off-GCD finisher that has a long cooldown or some penalty attached to it; identity is given to the melee DPS in two ways: 1) how these shared aspects interact with each other and 2) the specific job skills. MNK has stances and his sustained status can stack; DRG has jumps and 4-move combos to sustain the status; NIN has different Mudras and party utility for aggro control. What makes them unique is a set of what? 10 skills? ASTs also have that when compared to the other healers. Just look at the healing toolkit for all three of them:

1) Every healer has a basic healing spell (Cure, Physick and Benefic);
2) Every healer has a second tier, situaltional healing spell (Cure II, Adloquium and Benefic II). SCHs got a cooldown to increase the potency of the second tier healing spell (Emergency Tactics);
3) WHM and AST have a basic 300 potency AoE healing spell (Medica and Helios), and SCH can use a cooldown to increase the potency of its second tier AoE healing spell to catch up (Emergency Tactics + Succor);
4) Every healer has a second tier, situational AoE healing spell (Medica II, Succor and Aspected Helios). WHM adds a Regen, SCH shields and AST can choose to do either Regen or shielding to match duty (and NOT party) requirements;
5) Every healer has an off-GCD single target healing spell (Tetragrammaton, Lustrate and Essential Dignity). WHM has a long cooldown, SCH consumes stacks that could be used for other skills and AST has a short cooldown/variable potency heal;
6) Every healer has a bubble (Asylum, Sacred Soil and Collective Unconscious). WHM Regens, SCH shields and ASTs do both at the same time, but have to channel the bubble around themselves;
7) Every healer can increase their own healing potency (Divine Seal, Dissipation and Synastry). WHMs can do it every minute, SCHs need to give up their fairies to do it and ASTs burn their double healing cooldown;
8) Every healer has a cleanse spell (Esuna, Leeches and Exalted Detriment);
9) Every healer has an MP refresh skill (Shroud of Saints, Aetherflow and Luminiferous Aether). WHM cuts own aggro by half, SCH gets stacks for other spells and AST lowers aggro generation.

It's already possible to see some unique characteristics for every single healer just by comparing what they have in common. Now let's look at what they don't have in common:

WHMs

1) Have a third tier healing spell that affects a single target and splashes healing to everyone around that target (Cure III);
2) Have a long cooldown panic heal that restores 100% of the target's HP (Benediction);
3) Have a cooldown that increases own attack speed for a short duration (Presence of Mind)
4) Have an interaction between their basic heal and their second tier heal, allowing a free cast for the second tier heal (Freecure);
5) Have an interaction between their second tier heal and their third tier heal, allowing them to save MP on their third tier heal cast (Overcure);
6) Have a spell that deals damage and does AoE healing at the same time while refreshing 10% of maximum MP (Assize);
7) Have MP cost and cast reduction traits/special effects for some of their spells (Medica, Esuna and Stoneskin).

SCHs

1) Can summon pets to help with healing and supporting, getting additional skills. Pets could be considered stances (Eos – healing/Selene – utility);
2) Have a second tier critical healing additional effect that can double the amount of shielding on the target, or can create a big burst heal when combined with cooldowns (Emergency Tactics + critical Adloquium);
3) Can spread their single target shields to other party members (Deployment tactics);
4) Have a short cooldown, close range off-GCD AoE spell with 400 potency (Indomitability);
5) While using Eos: AoE regen with no initial burst (Whispering Dawn);
6) While using Eos: AoE magic defense buff (Fey Covenant);
7) While using Eos: AoE healing potency buff (Fey Illumination);
8) While using Selene: single target silence (Silent Dawn);
9) While using Selene: AoE cleanse (Fey Caress);
10) While using Selene: AoE haste (Fey Wind);
11) Have a trait that adds INT and MND penalty to the Virus debuff (Supervirus);
12) Have an interaction between their second tier AoE healing spell and their bubble, making the second tier AoE healing spell free to cast (Additional effect on Sacred Soil);

ASTs

1) Have two stances they can choose from to match playstyle or duty requirements. Each one of those stances give the AST a sustained buff and change the additional effects of their Aspected spells (Diurnal Sect and Nocturnal Sect);
2) Have an instant cast, single target healing spell on their GCD, that adds special effects according to the stance (Aspected Benefic);
3) Have a cooldown that creates a bond with a target and heals them for 40% the amount of the single target healing spells the AST casts on any other party member (Synastry);
4) Have a cooldown that reduces cast time by 2.5 and MP cost by 25%, allowing them to heal while moving (Lightspeed);
5) Have an interaction between their basic heal and their second tier heal, transforming their second tier heal into an instant cast on-GCD spell (Enhanced Benefic);
6) Have a single target cooldown that increases any buffs cast on a target by 15s (Time Dilation)
7) Have an off-GCD AoE stun that increases any buffs cast on any target (including themselves) by 5s (Celestial Opposition);
7) Have a cooldown that allows for a random buff to be cast on a target every 30s (Draw). The buffs can do one of six things: decrease damage taken, increase damage dealt, increase attack speed, decrease recast timers for skills used while under the buff effect, refresh MP and refresh TP;
8) Have a cooldown that reuses the random buff cooldown in case the result was not satisfactory (Shuffle);
9) Have a cooldown that allows for a specific buff to be stored and used whenever they feel like using it (Spread);
10) Have a cooldown that allows them to use one of their special buffs to enhance their next used buff by adding a special effect on themselves (Royal Road).

I could go on and compare their DPS toolkit, but I believe this is enough to show my point. Just like every other role (Tank, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS and Caster DPS), all three healers share common characteristics that allow them to perform equally in basic duties (like 4-ppl dungeons and so on); they also have additional effects on those common spells/skills that give each of them a unique flavor; and, finally, they all have a unique set of spells/skills that no other healer has. People have to stop saying that AST doesn’t have its own identity, because that’s not true. Yes, it was launched after the other two healers, but so were NIN, MCH and DRK. I have compared (briefly, I know) the Melee DPS toolkit, but I could do the same for the Ranged DPS and Tanks; every single job in the game shares characteristics with the other jobs that can perform the same role. This isn’t a problem, it was never a problem and it will never be a problem. Identity and uniqueness are there, and you don’t need a flashy icon and an exclusive skillset to see it.

[Risvertasashi]

While I do think that AST is fine in all content, Thordan isn't hard to heal when you have 5 DPS. The hardest parts to heal are double knights and the last phase before enrage. You should be killing a knight on the first divine right so the healing check is pretty much gone and you should skip the last phase before enrage with 5 DPS.

This assumes the DPS are competent and don't die.

One advantage to 5 DPS is you can leave one on the floor if needed, and still meet DPS checks.

I want more love to the card system too.

While at first this is what I hoped SE would do... with how powerful AST's heals are now, I don't think they can buff the card system without making the job OP.

[Yhisa]

I got idea since all those claiming AST is fine go run double as in savage 1 in noct sect the other in diurnal sect ... Now since we are mimics of whm/ sch we should be able to do it no problem at all ... I want video prove of it linked on thos forum....until then ast needs a major rework with its identity and not shadow whm/sch and copy there regens/shield.. Or fairy/divine seal (cough synasty) .... Yes we can do content because we are being carried by the SCH or the WHM.... Ast on it self cannot do it.. Try it with double ast and u will see the problems we have ... So until then just suck it up at wait for changes towards ast